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New plan for teacher raise and revenue is gaining traction

BvillePoker

BvillePoker

Heisman Candidate
Dec 29, 2004
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Here is the new plan that seems to be the focus of most of the legislators. There are 3 or 4 plans circulating, but this seems to have the most buy in from Dems and Reps.

Here’s how the numbers break down:

Teacher Pay Plan:

Revenue

  • 5% Gross Production Tax = $200M
  • $1.50 Cigarette Tax = $250M
  • .06 Cent Fuel Tax = $172M
  • Cap Gains Exemption = $120M
  • Itemized Deduction Cap = $108M
  • Hotel/Motel Tax = $50M
  • Ball and Dice = $22m
  • Total = $922M
Expenses

  • $209M = $5,000 Teacher Raise
  • $65M = $2,500 Support Staff Raise
  • $75M = School Supplies
  • $250M = Healthcare
  • $71M = State Employee Raise
  • Total = $670M
Additional Revenue

  • $252 M
 
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BvillePoker said:
Here is the new plan that seems to be the focus of most of the legislators. There are 3 or 4 plans circulating, but this seems to have the most buy in from Dems and Reps.

Here’s how the numbers break down:

Teacher Pay Plan:

Revenue

  • 5% Gross Production Tax = $200M
  • $1.50 Cigarette Tax = $250M
  • .06 Cent Fuel Tax = $172M
  • Cap Gains Exemption = $120M
  • Itemized Deduction Cap = $108M
  • Hotel/Motel Tax = $50M
  • Ball and Dice = $22m
  • Total = $922M
Expenses

  • $209M = $5,000 Teacher Raise
  • $65M = $2,500 Support Staff Raise
  • $75M = School Supplies
  • $250M = Healthcare
  • $71M = State Employee Raise
  • Total = $670M
Additional Revenue

  • $252 M
Click to expand...

Teachers, etc receive the 'Expenses' you listed.

Oklahoma tax payers get .........?
As measured by.......?
 
poke2001 said:
I hate the smoking tax. Terrible policy.
Click to expand...
I am not a fan of taxes. But taxing smoking seems like a policy that has worked. Smoking has dropped significantly.

I admit I don’t smoke so it doesn’t personally bother me about a smoking tax.
 
CBradSmith said:
Teachers, etc receive the 'Expenses' you listed.

Oklahoma tax payers get .........?
As measured by.......?
Click to expand...
I'll take it a step farther. Why don't we cut their pay $5,000? What are we as tax payers getting in return for that extra $5,000 we are currently paying teachers?
 
CBradSmith said:
Teachers, etc receive the 'Expenses' you listed.

Oklahoma tax payers get .........?
As measured by.......?
Click to expand...

I have those same questions, but they lead in to a much bigger discussion about education policy and procedures in the state of Oklahoma. I don't think we can address those questions in a revenue package.
 
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BvillePoker said:
I have those same questions, but they lead in to a much bigger discussion about education policy and procedures in the state of Oklahoma. I don't think we can address those questions in a revenue package.
Click to expand...

Legit response.

So is @07pilt 's, in that it prompts creativity in looking comprehensively at addressing a problem-solution pairing, though I imagine that wasn't his intent.
 
CBradSmith said:
Legit response.

So is @07pilt 's, in that it prompts creativity in looking comprehensively at addressing a problem-solution pairing, though I imagine that wasn't his intent.
Click to expand...
My new thing is requiring quantitative epistemic certainty for things I am against, while only requiring a tweet from @MAGAhimmler as confirmation for things I like.
 
07pilt said:
My new thing is requiring quantitative epistemic certainty for things I am against, while only requiring a tweet from @MAGAhimmler as confirmation for things I like.
Click to expand...

Your new thing is the same as your old thing, taking shots at people while generally offering nothing of value to the board.

Meanwhile, time moves forward and others endure the daily burden of that cost you create.
 
CBradSmith said:
Your new thing is the same as your old thing, taking shots at people while generally offering nothing of value to the board.

Meanwhile, time moves forward and others endure the daily burden of that cost you create.
Click to expand...
Brad I'm merely in agreement with you. I'm going to need a 25 year longitudinal study to quantify the effect of teacher quality on educational outcomes, followed by another 25 year longitudinal study to quantify the effects of salary on teacher quality, before I agree to any of this.

Hold on, @DJTgodKing just tweeted that Huma is under sealed indictment.

Facts don't care about your feelings.
 
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cableok said:
I am not a fan of taxes. But taxing smoking seems like a policy that has worked. Smoking has dropped significantly.

I admit I don’t smoke so it doesn’t personally bother me about a smoking tax.
Click to expand...
Which is my point. You cannot use tax policy to both change behavior AND raise revenue. If people stop smoking (not a terrible thing) the revenue stream dries up.

Gas tax is good because people passing through the state help pay, but it’s terribly regressive. The GPT is fine, and I’d be ok increasing to 7%...but we should also tax wind at the same rate.
 
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I do find it interesting that no where in here is there any agreement or even notation that the added funding will actually do anything to address the real issue which is improved educational ranking/scoring. I love it when the government decides to throw a billion dollars per year at a problem and HOPE its solves something.
 
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aix_xpert said:
I do find it interesting that no where in here is there any agreement or even notation that the added funding will actually do anything to address the real issue which is improved educational ranking/scoring. I love it when the government decides to throw a billion dollars per year at a problem and HOPE its solves something.
Click to expand...

Here I fixed it.

Teacher Pay Plan:

Revenue

  • 5% Gross Production Tax = $200M
  • $1.50 Cigarette Tax = $250M
  • .06 Cent Fuel Tax = $172M
  • Cap Gains Exemption = $120M
  • Itemized Deduction Cap = $108M
  • Hotel/Motel Tax = $50M
  • Ball and Dice = $22m
  • Total = $922M
Expenses

  • $209M = $5,000 Teacher Raise
  • $65M = $2,500 Support Staff Raise
  • $75M = School Supplies
  • $250M = Healthcare
  • $71M = State Employee Raise
  • $0 = Agreement and Notation that the Funding will Address Educational Ranking/Scoring
  • Total = $670M
Additional Revenue

  • $252 M
 
07pilt said:
Here I fixed it.

Teacher Pay Plan:

Revenue

  • 5% Gross Production Tax = $200M
  • $1.50 Cigarette Tax = $250M
  • .06 Cent Fuel Tax = $172M
  • Cap Gains Exemption = $120M
  • Itemized Deduction Cap = $108M
  • Hotel/Motel Tax = $50M
  • Ball and Dice = $22m
  • Total = $922M
Expenses

  • $209M = $5,000 Teacher Raise
  • $65M = $2,500 Support Staff Raise
  • $75M = School Supplies
  • $250M = Healthcare
  • $71M = State Employee Raise
  • $0 = Agreement and Notation that the Funding will Address Educational Ranking/Scoring
  • Total = $670M
Additional Revenue

  • $252 M
Click to expand...

You don't get it. But then again, outside of arcane accounting theories, I haven't seen you get much of anything. Will this increase Oklahoma's educational standings vs. other states in the region? Yes or no. If not, then WHY THE F ARE SPENDING ANOTHER $1B per year? Because if it doesn't then your lines about this being about the children and the future of Oklahoma are just that...lines.
 
aix_xpert said:
You don't get it. But then again, outside of arcane accounting theories, I haven't seen you get much of anything. Will this increase Oklahoma's educational standings vs. other states in the region? Yes or no. If not, then WHY THE F ARE SPENDING ANOTHER $1B per year? Because if it doesn't then your lines about this being about the children and the future of Oklahoma are just that...lines.
Click to expand...
Do you think educational outcomes are independent of teacher quality?
Do you think the quality of people in a profession is independent of the pay level?
 
07pilt said:
Do you think educational outcomes are independent of teacher quality?
Do you think the quality of people in a profession is independent of the pay level?
Click to expand...
Certainly some are dependent on teacher quality. A higher percentage of educational outcomes is on family quality though.
 
Cigarettes are 3-4 dollars more a pack in Washington state. Liquor is prolly a good 5 bucks more a bottle. That hasn’t stopped people from consuming either.

We need to do something, whatever it is.
 
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Don't mistake my post as me being against this policy. Teachers are critical. I just find it absurd that we are again spending a chunk of money and have no target for what the actual outcome should be. Let me rephrase this: A 5K income increase for all teachers will move our average teacher salary to where on the national scale? Will we see a corresponding increase in test scores? Or is this bill not actually about the kids and is just a welfare bill because teachers are underpaid? If the latter, then great, but let's be honest about what it is.
 
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07pilt said:
Alternatively we can try for $0, and hope for the best.

Maybe family quality will spontaneously increase.
Click to expand...
So, I’m in favor of spending more. It is needed for sure. If anyone thinks spending another billion will solve the problem, it is not going to happen. We will be right here in a few years and the answer again will be to throw more money at it. At some point, we need to try for real solutions. Big things that might not even cost money.

1. Don’t force kids to go to school to 18. At 16 allow a path for “college prep” and trade.

2. Segregate classes between A/B students and C/D students. There is a chapter in freakanomics about this and I think it makes a hell of a lot of sense.

3. Restructure the public school system in the state and reduce admin (fire 50% or more of superintendents and staff, consolidate schools).

4. School choice.
 
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aix_xpert said:
Don't mistake my post as me being against this policy. Teachers are critical. I just find it absurd that we are again spending a chunk of money and have no target for what the actual outcome should be. Let me rephrase this: A 5K income increase for all teachers will move our average teacher salary to where on the national scale? Will we see a corresponding increase in test scores? Or is this bill not actually about the kids and is just a welfare bill because teachers are underpaid? If the latter, then great, but let's be honest about what it is.
Click to expand...

According to this analysis, when adjusting for cost of living, it would put them in the 10-20 range.

http://kahlerfinancial.com/financia.../teacher-salaries-adjusted-for-cost-of-living
 
aix_xpert said:
And after adjusted for cost of living (where we were already 33rd) would probably put us top 15-20ish? So do you think this will improve us to top 30 in test scores in the next 5 years?
Click to expand...

Dammit! (Blue)
 
poke2001 said:
So, I’m in favor of spending more. It is needed for sure. If anyone thinks spending another billion will solve the problem, it is not going to happen. We will be right here in a few years and the answer again will be to throw more money at it. At some point, we need to try for real solutions. Big things that might not even cost money.

1. Don’t force kids to go to school to 18. At 16 allow a path for “college prep” and trade.

2. Segregate classes between A/B students and C/D students. There is a chapter in freakanomics about this and I think it makes a hell of a lot of sense.

3. Restructure the public school system in the state and reduce admin (fire 50% or more of superintendents and staff, consolidate schools).

4. School choice.
Click to expand...

I agree with all 4 of these options.
 
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