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FMPoke

FMPoke

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Jan 12, 2002
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Arya Stark and I'm going home. I'm also a very fast healer.

Dani's home too and she bought one bad ass dragon and a bunch of Dothraki. Bad news for the slavers. Kill them and take their ships? How convenient. Varys is headed back to Westros. See if that goes the same way as the books.

Just when you think Tommen couldn't be a bigger pussy he outlaws trail by combat and turns mommy over to the high sparrow. Is wifey behind all this?

The Hounds joins the band without banners. Still no Lady Stoneheart. I have no idea where that is headed.

Everyone is headed to Winterfield for the bastard bowl. My money is on Jon.

There was also an interview which said on seven episode in season seven which is suppose to be the last. That means we are nine episodes from wrapping the whole thing up. They better start thinning the heard pretty fast.
 
I thought the word was that there would be two more seasons -- seven episodes next season and six shows the season after that.

Was Arya's final declaration what Jaqen had been pushing her toward all along? His reaction was one of approval (I thought).

Logistics question: If Dani needs at least a thousand ships to get her army to Westeros, will the slavers have enough ships or will she need to supplement their number with those of Yara and Theon?

Then, if the slavers do have a thousand ships, to whom are they planning on selling 1,000 shiploads of slaves?
 
There must be some very powerful Brienne - Jaime shippers for the whole Riverrun plot to be pointless other than seeing the two of them together again.
 
Mr. Blonde said:
There must be some very powerful Brienne - Jaime shippers for the whole Riverrun plot to be pointless other than seeing the two of them together again.
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Agreed. IMO, this episode was chock full of poor HBO writing.

-So, Arya was stabbed twice in the abdomen and was bleeding like a stuck pig. That's OK, we will put a girdle on her and she will be ready to run a marathon and kick some ass 2-3 days later. Completely unrealistic. (of course, we are talking about a story involving dragons and guys who return from the dead).

-The Riverrun story was a complete waste. I guess they did kill off the Blackfish (which sucks), but nothing significant happened. I did like that Jaime (while talking to Edmure) said "The things we do for love". That was his exact quote after he pushed Bran from the tower in season 1. I didn't think they made it very clear as to why Edmure agreed to surrender the castle. I understood it due to reading the books, but thought it was a bit ambiguous. As an aside, I love that the Tully armor looks like fish scales.

-The Tyrion scene with Grey Worm and Missandei trying to tell jokes seemed like a total waste of time. But, I guess they had to be doing something when Dani made her dramatic reappearance. So, Dani can control Drogon well enough to get dropped off exactly where she wants...why not use him to convince the slavers to stop attacking Mereen?

-HBO pretty much destroyed the idea of Cleagane-bowl on 2 different fronts. Sure doesn't look like The Hound has found religion after all, which means he won't represent the church in a trial by combat for Cersei. Of course, Tommen outlawed TBC anyway, so I guess it doesn't matter.

-Cersei looks to be up a creek. Not sure how she gets out of this mess. Uncle Kevan finally showed that he has testicles. He was more in line with the Kevan of the books in this episode.

@FMPoke How do you know Varys is headed for Westeros? I can't imagine where else he would be going, but did he or Tyrion hint as to what his mission is? He is a wanted man in Westeros, so I think it will be interesting to see where he is headed. At the end of book 5, he kills Pycelle and Kevan, but neither one of them seem to have much influence over Tommen, so killing them wouldn't seem to be all that important.

-It was good to see Dondarion (already dead in the books) and Thoros again. I thought it was interesting that the guy they hanged was Lem Lemoncloak (still alive in the books). Lem is kind of an ass in the books, but is also a key member of the BWB and seems to be completely dedicated to their cause. Not sure why HBO is having the Hound join up with them. But, Dondarion seemed to know about the threat of the White Walkers and suggested that they may be heading North to fight against them. Maybe HBO is using this story as a way to get the Hound to where the action is as the show wraps up.

-I can't imagine them wrapping all of this up in only 8 or 9 more episodes. I could buy 15-16 more episodes, but even that seems like it would be tight.
 
They seem to still be spending a lot of time on character moments, most everything with Tyrion, Grey Worm and Missandei, the Bronn and Pod scene, when everyone wants to see more plot moving forward. I think there are just too many threads at this point, and they need some of them to hang on so they all run out at the same time.

They could have easily cut out Arya's stabbing from last episode and just had the chase from this episode ending with her cutting the candle be the end of last week's episode. Then her putting the waif's face on the wall would have been a kick ass cold open.
 
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Mr. Blonde said:
They seem to still be spending a lot of time on character moments, most everything with Tyrion, Grey Worm and Missandei, the Bronn and Pod scene, when everyone wants to see more plot moving forward. I think there are just too many threads at this point, and they need some of them to hang on so they all run out at the same time.

They could have easily cut out Arya's stabbing from last episode and just had the chase from this episode ending with her cutting the candle be the end of last week's episode. Then her putting the waif's face on the wall would have been a kick ass cold open.
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I forgot about the Bronn/Pod scene. I actually thought it was quite good. Of course, any scene with Bronn tends to be excellent. Not sure if it is the actor, the writing, or both.

Glad you mentioned the face of the Waif. I thought that there was way too much blood in the Temple for it to have come from 1 dripping face. Bugged me.
 
I should clarify, I will probably enjoy any scenes with Tyrion or Bronn quite a bit. It is more just impatience to get things moving.
 
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Air_Thurman said:
I've really enjoyed this season but I thought last night's episode was pretty bad. Seems like both the Arya and Riverrun plots have just been time wastes.
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Good point on Arya. So, in all this time in Bravos, the only way that she changed was that she grew up a bit and learned to fight a bit better. Basically the same things that would have happened if she had remained on the run in Westeros. I suspect that in the book, she will become much more of a ninja prior to heading back home.
 
BTW.....

Remember when there was stuff happening in Dorne....

HBO sure wasted our time with that BS.
 
Well, Dany became the Red Baron of Dragon Riding after burning the Khals, so Arya may get super assassin skills from killing the waif.

At least with the attack on Meeren with ships, plus Yara and Theon coming, Dany should finally have her ships for heading to Westeros. Bastard Bowl happens next week. With Bran and Arya heading back to the North, and Jon, Sansa and Rickon already there, we're almost to a full on family reunion. Hopefully they all make it, although Rickon's chances have to be slim.

I wonder if GRRM is having the same problems as HBO is, too much sprawl and now wrapping all the stories up together is a problem.
 
Been Jammin said:
Agreed. IMO, this episode was chock full of poor HBO writing.

-So, Arya was stabbed twice in the abdomen and was bleeding like a stuck pig. That's OK, we will put a girdle on her and she will be ready to run a marathon and kick some ass 2-3 days later. Completely unrealistic. (of course, we are talking about a story involving dragons and guys who return from the dead).

-The Riverrun story was a complete waste. I guess they did kill off the Blackfish (which sucks), but nothing significant happened. I did like that Jaime (while talking to Edmure) said "The things we do for love". That was his exact quote after he pushed Bran from the tower in season 1. I didn't think they made it very clear as to why Edmure agreed to surrender the castle. I understood it due to reading the books, but thought it was a bit ambiguous. As an aside, I love that the Tully armor looks like fish scales.

-The Tyrion scene with Grey Worm and Missandei trying to tell jokes seemed like a total waste of time. But, I guess they had to be doing something when Dani made her dramatic reappearance. So, Dani can control Drogon well enough to get dropped off exactly where she wants...why not use him to convince the slavers to stop attacking Mereen?

-HBO pretty much destroyed the idea of Cleagane-bowl on 2 different fronts. Sure doesn't look like The Hound has found religion after all, which means he won't represent the church in a trial by combat for Cersei. Of course, Tommen outlawed TBC anyway, so I guess it doesn't matter.

-Cersei looks to be up a creek. Not sure how she gets out of this mess. Uncle Kevan finally showed that he has testicles. He was more in line with the Kevan of the books in this episode.

@FMPoke How do you know Varys is headed for Westeros? I can't imagine where else he would be going, but did he or Tyrion hint as to what his mission is? He is a wanted man in Westeros, so I think it will be interesting to see where he is headed. At the end of book 5, he kills Pycelle and Kevan, but neither one of them seem to have much influence over Tommen, so killing them wouldn't seem to be all that important.

-It was good to see Dondarion (already dead in the books) and Thoros again. I thought it was interesting that the guy they hanged was Lem Lemoncloak (still alive in the books). Lem is kind of an ass in the books, but is also a key member of the BWB and seems to be completely dedicated to their cause. Not sure why HBO is having the Hound join up with them. But, Dondarion seemed to know about the threat of the White Walkers and suggested that they may be heading North to fight against them. Maybe HBO is using this story as a way to get the Hound to where the action is as the show wraps up.

-I can't imagine them wrapping all of this up in only 8 or 9 more episodes. I could buy 15-16 more episodes, but even that seems like it would be tight.
Click to expand...

I thought at some point in the conversation between Tyrion and Varys, after Tyrion said I hope your mission succeeds, Varys reference the Queen needs friend in Westros. My impreesion was he going to build up support for her return. Probably stoke the unrest and have some people in place to reep caos when she arrives.

Kevin was with Tommen when he made the announcement and conforted Cersie so I would say he has quite a bit of influence. Not the same as to books but still significant. Plus his son his one the leaders of the faith militia whose influence is much more advanced then the books.

They may be splitting season seven into two parts of seven episodes apiece like the final Soparnos season. That would make a lot more sense. The interview that said it was going to be seven episodes only was with Jack Bender a director so he may not know the whole plan just that they are working on seven now and he's not involved.

I'm still guessing at some point the Hound get's revenge on his brother but it may not be until the end when the final battle for the throne happens.

I noted the Jamie quote also. It wasn't all bad writing. Edmure surrendered the Castle because he didn't want to see his son captipulted into it. That and he's a wessal whose primarily looking out for himself. What I thought was unrealistic was that the guards would just obey him over the Blackfish lay down their arms and become prisoners without any assurance about what was going to happen to them.

I guess that potient Arya was given had some magic healing power. Otherwise that scene was a rediculas as an old John Wayne western where he would get shot and ten minutes later kick someone ass.
 
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@FMPoke
I understood why Edmure surrendered the castle, but felt like I had the advantage of having read the books. I thought it might have been a bit confusing to those who only watch and don't read.
 
Dany landing the dragon on the pyramid didn't bother me. She was able to land it in front of the Doth army to address them. And she had plenty of flying time between Vaes Dothrak and Meereen.

Aryas healing bugged me, though obviously she was not really healed. I'm guessing the actress sewed up whatever guts were punctured, and as is always the case with HBO, we never know how much time passed between her being sewed up and the waif showing up. It could have been 2 weeks. But yeah, those wounds should have killed her.

I kept thinking we would see the Blackfish's army meeting up with Brienne, we may still. Did they let them out of the castle? In once scene it looked like they were marching between rows of Lanister soldiers outside the walls, but then a few seconds later they were piling up their arms inside the castle.

Brienne is a hell of a fighter but not real bright. I kept waiting for Pod to interject and suggest to the Blackfish that they could leave, win back Winterfell, and then return with his and Jon's army and retake Riverrun. It aint like Jamie is hanging around to defend the castle after they take it.
 
Cowpoke said:
Dany landing the dragon on the pyramid didn't bother me. She was able to land it in front of the Doth army to address them. And she had plenty of flying time between Vaes Dothrak and Meereen.
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I had no issue with Dany landing exactly where she did. I had issue with her letting Drogon fly away while her city is under siege (since she apparently has so much control over him right now).

Cowpoke said:
Aryas healing bugged me, though obviously she was not really healed. I'm guessing the actress sewed up whatever guts were punctured, and as is always the case with HBO, we never know how much time passed between her being sewed up and the waif showing up. It could have been 2 weeks. But yeah, those wounds should have killed her.
Click to expand...

So many issues with the whole scenario. First, she gets stabbed (at least twice) deep into her abdomen and is bleeding quite a bit. Now, skin wounds can bleed a lot, but it sure seemed like the knife hit something vital (i.e. liver, spleen, kidney, etc). If it lacerated stomach/intestine (anything with food/feces within), she would die of peritonitis if all they did was sew up the injured tissue and wrap her up real tight. Bacteria would be in her abdomen, would proliferate and kill her. I guess the writers want us to believe that nothing vital was hit and she just had punctured skin and muscle, and was fortunate not to get an infection. As you say, we have no idea how much time passed, but it would seem like the Waif only had one option if she were considering where Arya might go for help. She already knew that Arya spared Lady Crane. I doubt the Waif would waif for 2 weeks before looking for Arya there.

Cowpoke said:
I kept thinking we would see the Blackfish's army meeting up with Brienne, we may still. Did they let them out of the castle? In once scene it looked like they were marching between rows of Lanister soldiers outside the walls, but then a few seconds later they were piling up their arms inside the castle.
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I am pretty sure we only saw the Lannister/Frey army marching into the castle. They did not make it clear what became of the Tully army. They just suggested that they were not allowed to live. Whether they remained at RR or were sent elsewhere, we do not know. I doubt the Freys would want them hanging around to cause problems, though.

Cowpoke said:
Brienne is a hell of a fighter but not real bright. I kept waiting for Pod to interject and suggest to the Blackfish that they could leave, win back Winterfell, and then return with his and Jon's army and retake Riverrun. It aint like Jamie is hanging around to defend the castle after they take it.
Click to expand...

I had no issue with the Brienne/Blackfish interaction. Especially if HBO wants to start wrapping the show up. No reason to keep the Blackfish alive and have him leave with Brienne. Of course, both issues could be solved by having him lead the Tully army north to Winterfell. But, then Jon would not have needed Littlefinger's help, and he has been sitting on the sidelines for too long.
 
Ahh it was probably the Frey Army I saw. It was a different color than the Lanisters, I need to watch that again.

I don't have an issue with the BF dying, just as others say, that whole side trip ended up being sort of pointless, especially now that we are nearing the end, that was some valuable screen time. I don't think he was really much of a loose end that needed tieing up as I bet most had forgotten about him. I guess they just needed some of their most compelling actors to be doing something. I did sort of enjoy those scenes even if pointless.

I figured Dany is able to call the dragon now, its probably just flying around close to avoid (those bad ass) catapult shots. I wonder if we are about to see all 3 in action.
 
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- The whole Arya thing was a pain, but I think it was what she was leading to the whole time. When Jaq first met her, she was pretending to be a boy, trying to sow she could fight, not knowing where to go and having no home. Now she knows who she is and she is going home. Yes, probably could have done it with a drugged up vision in a medicine man tent, but it is what it is.

- The chase was humorous, Waif reminded me of the terminator. I thought the start to finish of that arc, from Lady Crane dying seemingly needlessly then Jaq letting Arya go, closed the book saying, 'faceless god is going to get who he wants and what he needs and since you brought me Waif I don't need you.'

- The whole Riverrun thing didn't bug me at all, because it finally showed that Jaime, ultimately has realized he cares about one thing - Cersei. He is willing to do anything to get back to her because he knows she needs him. He let Edemure go (set him up in Castley Rock with his wife and kid), let Brienne go even tho he knows there is going to be a war up north and Sansa is involved and Cersei wants her dead, might even let the Tulley army go because he doesn't give a $hit anymore. I love the dialog in the tent, that was pure evil showing who Jaime really is for all the anti-hero lovers.

- The rumors referred to I am almost certain that its about the Wildfire stashes under the city. Is she planning on unleashing them on the church? On the city? Is Tommon going to accidentally die in this? Is Jaime going to come back in time to stop her? Kill her? Maybe he comes back in time to see she has killed Tommen and he kills her (Valoqar). Because of this, I think the trial and rumor and showdown is going to get drawn out well into next season.

- The Hound has found his best of both worlds - he believes he is evil and he has been told by two diff peeps now that he was, he's been judged, what's done is done, and he can make up for it by helping the people. The BWB helps the people but aren't opposed to doing some killing to do it. Therefore this seems to be his place. They seem to be going north, maybe to join the bastard bowl?

- I think that it has been said by someone somewhere that you can only resurrect one person at a time. Since other dude is alive and Cat has been dead for at the VERY least 9 months (there was a baby conceived on the Red Wedding night) unlikely that is going to pass.

- I have no issue with Dary getting dropped off, I didn't even think twice about it. I had the point of view that Drogon was probably going to go light up some boats and/or the Iron Fleet is going to come in behind them and wipe them out.

- Did Varys not say he was going to Westeros? I was pretty sure he did. I am also thinking he is going to find out what has happened in Dorne and go get their help.

- Next week is likely nothing but the bastard bowl, much like episode 9 last season was nothing but the WW battle.
 
MajorMike_Ret said:
- The whole Riverrun thing didn't bug me at all, because it finally showed that Jaime, ultimately has realized he cares about one thing - Cersei.
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My issue is we knew this going into the Riverrun siege. There was the scene early in the season between Cersei/Jaime were it was pretty much stated the whole point of Jaime going to Riverrun was to crush their enemies so he could get back to Cersei. They both said all that mattered where each other.

I don't mind wheel spinning if there was some character development but I feel like the Riverrun stuff had neither. Nothing changed for any of the characters in the time there (except the Blackfish).

To me it felt like a case where they had come brief plot points from Martin they felt they needed to hit but didn't really have much to go on/or missed the point.
 
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MajorMike_Ret said:
- The rumors referred to I am almost certain that its about the Wildfire stashes under the city. Is she planning on unleashing them on the church? On the city? Is Tommon going to accidentally die in this? Is Jaime going to come back in time to stop her? Kill her? Maybe he comes back in time to see she has killed Tommen and he kills her (Valoqar). Because of this, I think the trial and rumor and showdown is going to get drawn out well into next season.
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Thanks for posting this. I had forgotten about that conversation. At the time, I was wondering what Cersei and Qybern were talking about. Wildfire cache fits perfectly. Especially when they showed it in Bran's flashback a few episodes ago. I thought their conversation was referring back to a prior conversation they shared. One that I had forgotten. But wildfire makes more sense.

I agree on trial being next season. Not sure I buy Jaime killing her because she has killed Tommen. HBO has made it seem like Jaime doesn't feel all that attached to Tommen. At least, not in a fatherly way.
 
Air_Thurman said:
My issue is we knew this going into the Riverrun siege. There was the scene early in the season between Cersei/Jaime were it was pretty much stated the whole point of Jaime going to Riverrun was to crush their enemies so he could get back to Cersei. They both said all that mattered where each other.

I don't mind wheel spinning if there was some character development but I feel like the Riverrun stuff had neither. Nothing changed for any of the characters in the time there (except the Blackfish).

To me it felt like a case where they had come brief plot points from Martin they felt they needed to hit but didn't really have much to go on/or missed the point.
Click to expand...

I feel like the only thing that came from that part of the story was the reunion of Brienne and Jaime. They went out of their way to get the 2 of them together again. It started with the Walder Frey scene where he informs us that the Blackfish had retaken Riverrun. Then the Tommen scene with him drumming Jaime out of the Kingsguard and Cersei convincing him to go ahead and head to RR. Then the tangential trip of Brienne to go to RR for what amounted to nothing. Either they felt they had a loose end that needed to be tied up with Jaime and Brienne needing to talk to each other and part as friends who respect each other. Or...they are setting us up for the two of them to end the story in a romantic relationship.
 
Been Jammin said:
I feel like the only thing that came from that part of the story was the reunion of Brienne and Jaime. They went out of their way to get the 2 of them together again. It started with the Walder Frey scene where he informs us that the Blackfish had retaken Riverrun. Then the Tommen scene with him drumming Jaime out of the Kingsguard and Cersei convincing him to go ahead and head to RR. Then the tangential trip of Brienne to go to RR for what amounted to nothing. Either they felt they had a loose end that needed to be tied up with Jaime and Brienne needing to talk to each other and part as friends who respect each other. Or...they are setting us up for the two of them to end the story in a romantic relationship.
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Yeah, and they might have felt they needed to get Jaime out of Kings Landing.
 
Been Jammin said:
Adultery with Lancel. And, I think he implicated her in a plot to get Robert drunk while hunting, which led to his death.
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Gotcha, so nothing to do with her relationship with Jaime. It would be ironic if the King was engineering his own downfall.
 
No because the cousin actually admitted the relationship and the plot to get the king drunk, so they have 'evidence'. Whereas with Jaime all they have is rumor.
 
She told him to go show them what they do to those who have wronged them.

The stories are going to say that Sir Jaime took the army against a keep that could hold up for two years and took it without losing a single man plus the Blackfish is dead. Took it in a day.

Perspective.
 
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Thought this was spot on....

Loser 3: Fans of the Dorne plot
Okay, there are no fans of the Dorne plot.

But if there were fans of the Dorne plot, they would be wondering how on earth the show managed to entirely forget about it. In case you, too, have forgotten, when last we saw Dorne, Ellaria Sand and her daughters pulled off a rather stunning coup d’état in which they killed Prince Doran Martell, his only son, Trystane, and Princess Marcella.

That unquestionably means open warfare with House Lannister. Except instead of sending their army south to avenge their daughter and fight the inevitable war, Cersei and Jaime sent their army north to Riverrun and just forgot all about Dorne. And nobody else seems interested in these momentous events either — it doesn’t come up for conversation in Meereen among the Tullys or anywhere else.

Perhaps the ravens all found this plot line too boring and incoherent to keep up with.

-------------------------------------

The more I think about it, the more I realize that the writing is seriously trending in a downward direction. So many places I can point out examples of poor writing. The Arya story alone has so many issues. Many have been mentioned above, but I thought it was very strange that Jaqen just nodded and gave her the "good luck, catch ya later" look after she told him she was heading home.

The show is still good, but I feel like it is being carried by how strong it was during the first 4 seasons. I have a feeling that HBO agrees that it is falling off and this probably explains why they are wanting to wrap it up sooner rather than later.
 
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I feel like I've just walked into the office break room full of women yapping about something I have absolutely no clue what they're talking about.

You ladies carry on.
 
Air_Thurman said:
Gotcha, so nothing to do with her relationship with Jaime. It would be ironic if the King was engineering his own downfall.
Click to expand...

That was actually my thought. I figured that this was how the High Sparrow could oust Tommen. Being a full Lanister and no Borathean, he would have no clIm to the throne. One Boratheon is still around, I think (Arya's friend) and i tjough he spent time around the HS's followers. Or, is the HS a targaran?

I actually loved the Hound's part this week. Still a badass, but sort of a whipped puppy dog.

On Arya, she got the tools to become "faceless" and become a better assassin, so that bit did not bug me.
 
blbronco said:
That was actually my thought. I figured that this was how the High Sparrow could oust Tommen. Being a full Lanister and no Borathean, he would have no clIm to the throne. One Boratheon is still around, I think (Arya's friend) and i tjough he spent time around the HS's followers. Or, is the HS a targaran?
Click to expand...

The Barathean you are thinking of is Gendry (Arya's friend). When last we saw him (HBO version), he was rowing away on a boat after Davos saved him from being burned by Melisandre (King's blood). I think that was in season 2...maybe 3. I doubt he returns to the show, but Thoros, Dondarion and the Hound did, so who knows. With that said, Gendry is a bastard son of Robert and would not be considered to have a claim to the throne, so it likely does not matter if he reappears.

As far as whether or not the HS is a Targaryan, we don't know what he is. In both book and show, he is a man who appears to rise to power out of nowhere. We don't know if he comes from a prominent family or anything about his past. Based on what we know about the Targaryean recent history, it seems very unlikely that he is one of them.
 
He has to be noble with his talk of partying. I took as he came from money at the very least. I am talking about the HS.
 
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