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When you proposed as your only criticism: end the embargo.

I bet my wife dinner at Mahogany that you didn’t read the article that caused all this back and forth. If you had read it you would know he addressed the “embargo defense.”
As an American citizen the only productive thing for the US to do is end the embargo. If I was a member of a Castro family my I would have different options.
 
Sorry Dan. For being such an anarchist you sure are aligning closely with the CIA on this one.
When it comes to US intervention in Cuba, my attitude aligns almost 100% with Caitlin Johnstone’s, who is the type of leftist you ought to be, and is diametrically opposite of what the CIA wants. I would encourage you to follow the woman if you want to be the philosophical leftist visionary you have only pretended to be up until now.


 
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As an American citizen the only productive thing for the US to do is end the embargo. If I was a member of a Castro family my I would have different options.
That’s where you are wrong. As an avowed and proud left wing American citizen it falls on you to shout from the rooftops your displeasure that Cuban communists are making a travesty of what should be a glorious revolution. Instead you say nothing until you are dragged kicking and screaming into being forced to opine, and your opinion is to blame everyone but the real culprits. You’re the stereotypical good team player. I thought there was more to you than that.
 
That’s where you are wrong. As an avowed and proud left wing American citizen it falls on you to shout from the rooftops your displeasure that Cuban communists are making a travesty of what should be a glorious revolution. Instead you say nothing until you are dragged kicking and screaming into being forced to opine, and your opinion is to blame everyone but the real culprits. You’re the stereotypical good team player. I thought there was more to you than that.
No, there isn't. He's a shallow as a kiddie wading pool.
 
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That’s where you are wrong. As an avowed and proud left wing American citizen it falls on you to shout from the rooftops your displeasure that Cuban communists are making a travesty of what should be a glorious revolution. Instead you say nothing until you are dragged kicking and screaming into being forced to opine, and your opinion is to blame everyone but the real culprits. You’re the stereotypical good team player. I thought there was more to you than that.
Dan I am not even in the DSA what influence can I possibly have on Diaz-canel?

Dear Mr. Diaz-canel,

Please stop doing tyranny.

Sincerely pilt

The only narrative that serves is the interventionist one backed by the CIA.
 
There are leftists who have a philosophical vision of how the world should be, one of peace and prosperity and harmony, and who are outraged at those who defile the vision, and make their outrage known for all to see. Then there is the leftist majority, those who have joined a team, who have no understanding, and don’t care to understand when the team slips off the rails. All they care about is winning, and if their victory results in chaos, horror or misery that’s just the price to pay to obtain victory.

I stupidly convinced myself Pilt was in the first category.
Yea, I put Pilt in that same category originally and eventually put him on ignore when it became obvious he's just Sys with the ability to use college-level words.
 
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Dan I am not even in the DSA what influence can I possibly have on Diaz-canel?

Dear Mr. Diaz-canel,

Please stop doing tyranny.

Sincerely pilt

The only narrative that serves is the interventionist one backed by the CIA.
Pilt, I beg of you to stop. Stop intentionally misrepresenting what I’m saying to you. Stop pretending your are seriously replying. Stop pretending you are anything short of a Stalinist. Stop pretending Norway’s “socialism” is what you desire. Please, stop.
 
Pilt, I beg of you to stop. Stop intentionally misrepresenting what I’m saying to you. Stop pretending your are seriously replying. Stop pretending you are anything short of a Stalinist. Stop pretending Norway’s “socialism” is what you desire. Please, stop.
What on earth are you yammering about Dan?
 
What on earth are you yammering about Dan?
I have enjoyed bantering with you all this time. I never expected that you would turn your back on collectivism, but it was not until today I realize you are one who would internally justify any amount of perverse and inhumane collectivism as long as collectivism prevails.
 
I have enjoyed bantering with you all this time. I never expected that you would turn your back on collectivism, but it was not until today I realize you are one who would internally justify any amount of perverse and inhumane collectivism as long as collectivism prevails.
Dan please quote me doing that
 
So then what exactly will lifting the embargo do besides enrich those fortunate to be on the right side of the government's violence and oppression, likely giving the government more tools to carry out violence and oppression? We've literally seen this story before. Corrupt regimes with absolute power shouldn't be enabled by a country like the US.
 
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So then what exactly will lifting the embargo do besides enrich those fortunate to be on the right side of the government's violence and oppression, likely giving the government more tools to carry out violence and oppression? We've literally seen this story before. Corrupt regimes with absolute power shouldn't be enabled by a country like the US.
Violence and oppression? Corrupt regimes? We are talking about Cuba here not Saudi Arabia
 
When it comes to US intervention in Cuba, my attitude aligns almost 100% with Caitlin Johnstone’s, who is the type of leftist you ought to be, and is diametrically opposite of what the CIA wants. I would encourage you to follow the woman if you want to be the philosophical leftist visionary you have only pretended to be up until now.


There is zero gap between Caitlin and me on Cuba.
 
Dan please quote me doing that
No, Pilt, I think I'll stop playing the game of charades with you. It's not about what you have said (although that is bad enough), it's about what you leave unsaid, or to be more precise it's about what you adamantly refuse to say. This thread is perfect evidence of your style. You have been given multiple opportunities to denounce the treatment of the Cuban people by their communist government, and you simply can't bring yourself to do it.

You have repeatedly presented Norway as true socialism in no small part because the people have a democratic voice in their government. That, you tell us, is true socialism in action. So why is it impossible for you to denounce the Cuban dictatorship in which the people have no democratic voice when they insist they are socialist? I would think you should have no trouble insisting "that's not real socialism." But you do have trouble saying those words, God knows why.

Look, I get it; you are a typical leftist that confuses cleverness with intelligence, someone who gets joy out of irritating your correspondent with open ended replies, clever non answers that can be interpreted in multiple ways, always replying to a question with a question of your own in an attempt to be the alpha of the conversation. It's a fun game. I admit I frequently enjoy playing the game with you, especially the "answering a question with a question" part. It's fun trying to steer you into asking the question I want you to ask (works about half the time).

But you lose all moral relevance when you won't denounce horrible governmental practices by people who say they are what you say you are. The proper thing for you to do at times like that is to scream until you're hoarse that they most certainly are not what you are, and you are incensed that they would say they are. You don't do that. You sit mute unless required to say something, and then you refuse to call out the tyranny being done in the name of collectivism. You leave one no choice but to understand you would prefer a Stalinist collectivism over liberalism if those are your choices.
 
No, Pilt, I think I'll stop playing the game of charades with you. It's not about what you have said (although that is bad enough), it's about what you leave unsaid, or to be more precise it's about what you adamantly refuse to say. This thread is perfect evidence of your style. You have been given multiple opportunities to denounce the treatment of the Cuban people by their communist government, and you simply can't bring yourself to do it.

You have repeatedly presented Norway as true socialism in no small part because the people have a democratic voice in their government. That, you tell us, is true socialism in action. So why is it impossible for you to denounce the Cuban dictatorship in which the people have no democratic voice when they insist they are socialist? I would think you should have no trouble insisting "that's not real socialism." But you do have trouble saying those words, God knows why.

Look, I get it; you are a typical leftist that confuses cleverness with intelligence, someone who gets joy out of irritating your correspondent with open ended replies, clever non answers that can be interpreted in multiple ways, always replying to a question with a question of your own in an attempt to be the alpha of the conversation. It's a fun game. I admit I frequently enjoy playing the game with you, especially the "answering a question with a question" part. It's fun trying to steer you into asking the question I want you to ask (works about half the time).

But you lose all moral relevance when you won't denounce horrible governmental practices by people who say they are what you say you are. The proper thing for you to do at times like that is to scream until you're hoarse that they most certainly are not what you are, and you are incensed that they would say they are. You don't do that. You sit mute unless required to say something, and then you refuse to call out the tyranny being done in the name of collectivism. You leave one no choice but to understand you would prefer a Stalinist collectivism over liberalism if those are your choices.
Dear Mr. Diaz-canel,

Please stop doing tyranny.

Sincerely pilt
 
Whoa. So you're saying the Cuban government isn't violent and oppressive to the Cuban people? I gotta hear more about this. We are definitely talking Cuba and not Saudi Arabia.
compared to what?

https://www.statista.com/statistics...h-the-most-prisoners-per-100-000-inhabitants/

 
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compared to what?

https://www.statista.com/statistics...h-the-most-prisoners-per-100-000-inhabitants/

Yeah, weird that the Cuban people shout USA and wave US flags when they're protesting for freedom. We should probably let them know that the US has about 100 more people in prison per 100,000 than Cuba. The US is definitely a shit hole to be avoided.

Executions? I wonder where that info comes from and if it includes all executions or just those "reported." I'm sure Cuba's government has killed nobody in a long time...
 
Yeah, weird that the Cuban people shout USA and wave US flags when they're protesting for freedom. We should probably let them know that the US has about 100 more people in prison per 100,000 than Cuba. The US is definitely a shit hole to be avoided.

Executions? I wonder where that info comes from and if it includes all executions or just those "reported." I'm sure Cuba's government has killed nobody in a long time.
So your evidence of violence and oppression is just some American flag waving?
 
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13cc9bc5-114d-4af7-b992-f177484698f6-large16x9_ProtestFollowingFederalWithdrawal_24.JPG

Some one should tell these protestors waving marxist BLM flags that Communist Cuba's prison population per capita is a mere 15% lower.
 
Yeah, weird that the Cuban people shout USA and wave US flags when they're protesting for freedom. We should probably let them know that the US has about 100 more people in prison per 100,000 than Cuba. The US is definitely a shit hole to be avoided.

Executions? I wonder where that info comes from and if it includes all executions or just those "reported." I'm sure Cuba's government has killed nobody in a long time...
It is obvious that Pilt sees no difference between people being put in prison for breaking laws enacted by their democratically elected representatives (many of which are admittedly lunatic laws) and political prisoners hauled away in the middle of the night, sometimes to disappear down a rabbit hole never to be seen again, by thugs in the employment of a dictatorial class, with no due process. It is clear by his attempt to deflect from the subject of the OP that Pilt wants to engage in “whataboutism,” once again showing his reluctance to criticize or discredit people who call themselves socialists and communists. It is clear that Pilt prefers that people live under the “Cuban” way of life.
 
It is obvious that Pilt sees no difference between people being put in prison for breaking laws enacted by their democratically elected representatives (many of which are admittedly lunatic laws) and political prisoners hauled away in the middle of the night, sometimes to disappear down a rabbit hole never to be seen again, by thugs in the employment of a dictatorial class, with no due process. It is clear by his attempt to deflect from the subject of the OP that Pilt wants to engage in “whataboutism,” once again showing his reluctance to criticize or discredit people who call themselves socialists and communists. It is clear that Pilt prefers that people live under the “Cuban” way of life.
There is due process in Cuba, Dan. You are just doing fairy tales now.
 
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There is due process in Cuba, Dan. You are just doing fairy tales now.
There is no legitimate due process for political prisoners in Cuba. You know that, Pilt, you just don’t want to stray from your fantasy.
 
There is no legitimate due process for political prisoners in Cuba. You know that, Pilt, you just don’t want to stray from your fantasy.
Dan try to keep up. Cuba ratified a new constitution in 2019.

You are the one with the fantasy. It is always the 1960s in Cuba to you.
 
Did you read that Dan?
Do you know how due process works?

Six out of 10 people in U.S. jails—nearly a half million individuals on any given day—are awaiting trial. People who have not been found guilty of the charges against them account for 95% of all jail population growth between 2000-2014.
Start your own thread about judicial abuses in America, Pilt, and I’ll happily join you in condemnation. This thread is about human rights abuse in communist Cuba. Your attempt to deflect away from the serial abuse in Cuba is shockingly obtuse.
 
Start your own thread about judicial abuses in America, Pilt, and I’ll happily join you in condemnation. This thread is about human rights abuse in communist Cuba. Your attempt to deflect away from the serial abuse in Cuba is shockingly obtuse.
No Dan actually you are jumping into a conversation I was having with medic in response to him claiming we should keep the Cuban embargo due to the violence and oppression.

Cuba is bad on political freedom and freedom of expression. It is not a violent oppressive police state compared other countries that we trade with.
 
Did you read that Dan?
Do you know how due process works?

Six out of 10 people in U.S. jails—nearly a half million individuals on any given day—are awaiting trial. People who have not been found guilty of the charges against them account for 95% of all jail population growth between 2000-2014.
I’ll tell you what I’ll do, Pilt. I’ll buy 500 of these shirts and a round trip ticket to Cuba for you if you’ll take them and hand them out at the next freedom rally in Havana. When you get back you can write about your experience.


 
No Dan actually you are jumping into a conversation I was having with medic in response to him claiming we should keep the Cuban embargo due to the violence and oppression.

Cuba is bad on political freedom and freedom of expression. It is not a violent oppressive police state compared other cou https://www.libertariancountry.com/products/i-deny-your-authority-t-shirt ntries that we trade with.
For crying out loud, Pilt, just once would you forget about other countries and concentrate your attention on the country under discussion?
 
I’ll tell you what I’ll do, Pilt. I’ll buy 500 of these shirts and a round trip ticket to Cuba for you if you’ll take them and hand them out at the next freedom rally in Havana. When you get back you can write about your experience.


Cool Dan let me clear my calendar
 
Cool Dan let me clear my calendar
My son worked at The New Republic way back when it was a printed magazine. He may still have some contacts there. They might be willing to pay you to write about what you saw and how you were treated. Clear your calendar quickly. Who knows how long the freedom marches will last.
 
If you are intent on comparing Cuba’s record of human rights, imprisonments, death sentences, etc. with another country why don’t you pick another socialist country to compare it to, say, oh, I don’t know, how about Norway?
 
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