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Michigan & Missori Duals this weekend

Most publications have said it was 3rd criteria, total match points (45 to 43). I went and checked and that adds up correctly.
Ok. It was much easer for my addled memory to remember nearfall points rather than points scored. I see now that's what he meant by, Fix scored enough points to get us the win by criteria.
 
Ok. It was much easer for my addled memory to remember nearfall points rather than points scored. I see now that's what he meant by, Fix scored enough points to get us the win by criteria.
Exactly. He needed to win by more than 9 and one by 11. Matches were tied 5-5 (1st criteria), there were no falls, defaults, forfeits, or DQ’s (2nd criteria) So went to 3rd criteria. Coaches told him about midway thru the 1st what he needed to do…
 
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Exactly. He needed to win by more than 9 and one by 11. Matches were tied 5-5 (1st criteria), there were no falls, defaults, forfeits, or DQ’s (2nd criteria) So went to 3rd criteria. Coaches told him about midway thru the 1st what he needed to do…
near fall points is 4th criteria
 
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We discussed this a few years back, but it seems like the tie breaker criteria might have some flaws...

Suppose we trailed by 16 points rather than 9 heading into that last match -- so a win by 17 would secure the victory. And say Daton can take the guy down at will, but he's hard to turn. When it gets to a 15 point differential, the match would be terminated by tech fall and we'd lose the dual on match points.

Also why is # of falls criteria 2? Suppose a dual goes 5 tech falls for team A and 4 one point decisions, plus 1 pin for team B. Team B wins on criteria even though team A dominated more matches.
 
We discussed this a few years back, but it seems like the tie breaker criteria might have some flaws...

Suppose we trailed by 16 points rather than 9 heading into that last match -- so a win by 17 would secure the victory. And say Daton can take the guy down at will, but he's hard to turn. When it gets to a 15 point differential, the match would be terminated by tech fall and we'd lose the dual on match points.

Also why is # of falls criteria 2? Suppose a dual goes 5 tech falls for team A and 4 one point decisions, plus 1 pin for team B. Team B wins on criteria even though team A dominated more matches.
5 tech falls for 1 team is 25 points. One pin for the other team they would need 3 techs and a major to tie at 25 .
 
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We discussed this a few years back, but it seems like the tie breaker criteria might have some flaws...

Suppose we trailed by 16 points rather than 9 heading into that last match -- so a win by 17 would secure the victory. And say Daton can take the guy down at will, but he's hard to turn. When it gets to a 15 point differential, the match would be terminated by tech fall and we'd lose the dual on match points.

Also why is # of falls criteria 2? Suppose a dual goes 5 tech falls for team A and 4 one point decisions, plus 1 pin for team B. Team B wins on criteria even though team A dominated more matches.
We would have received 5 points for the tech fall and won outright, no tiebreaker since we trailed by 4.
 
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Section 21. Breaking Ties in Dual Meets and Team-Advancement Tournaments When two teams finish in a tie in a dual meet or a team-advancement tournament, the following criteria shall be applied to determine a winner:
a. Greater number of victories. Note: Forfeits, defaults and disqualifications count toward total number of victories.
b. Combined total number of falls, forfeits, defaults and disqualifications.
c. Total match points scored only from decisions, major decisions and technical falls.
d. Total near fall points scored only from decisions, major decisions and technical falls. (Example: N-2 + N-2 + N-4 = Total of 8 near fall points scored for one team.)
e. Total number of takedowns scored only from decisions, major decisions and technical falls. (Example: T-2 + T-2 + T-2 = Total of 3 takedowns scored for one team.)
f. Least number of unsportsmanlike conduct calls.
g. First takedown scored in the dual meet.

above is criteria from the rule book. It seems flawed, as in if each team has a fall, and one occurred in the first period with a 2-0 score, and the other in the third period at 14-0, those points would not be considered in C, D, OR E.
 
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5 tech falls for 1 team is 25 points. One pin for the other team they would need 3 techs and a major to tie at 25 .
True, not a good example by me. Here's another...

Team A get 3 techs and 2 decisions. Team B gets 2 pins and 3 decisions. Dual is tied 21-21 and goes to criteria. Team B wins even though Team A bonus-ed "more" matches.

We would have received 5 points for the tech fall and won outright, no tiebreaker since we trailed by 4.
Also true, but say Reece lost 9-1, then it would have been a major. Going into Daton's match the dual score would have been 17-12 Mizzou and the match points would have been 47-31 Mizzou. A tech would have tied the dual 17-17. But we would have lost on criteria. The tech would have terminated Daton's match and prevented him from scoring more points.

I think CowboyUp61's snippet above is the key. You can't count match points for a pin so it has to be weighted more. But maybe it should go # of matches won, # of pins, # of techs, then total match points.
 
Sooo, Big Fan of Voinovich....Guy goes hard in the paint and is in almost every match. He needs to stay aggressive and it'll happen.

Surber is a BEAST.

Fix is dialed in.

Witcraft I think can be our permanent 125. Mastro hasn't done anything to prove me wrong.

Carter Young is big d!ck swinging right now.

Doucet needs to be more aggressive

Sheet, Whitlake, and Plott need to live up to the rankings/hype.

Great weekend all around!
 
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True, not a good example by me. Here's another...

Team A get 3 techs and 2 decisions. Team B gets 2 pins and 3 decisions. Dual is tied 21-21 and goes to criteria. Team B wins even though Team A bonus-ed "more" matches.
Team B would win in that scenario, with more falls. HS is different- 1st 3 criteria have to deal with USC penalties and misconduct. D is number of matches, E is Falls, forfeits, defaults, and DQ. F is Tech falls, G is major decieison. H is match points. Would rather see college start with D, then be the same.
 
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True, not a good example by me. Here's another...

Team A get 3 techs and 2 decisions. Team B gets 2 pins and 3 decisions. Dual is tied 21-21 and goes to criteria. Team B wins even though Team A bonus-ed "more" matches.


Also true, but say Reece lost 9-1, then it would have been a major. Going into Daton's match the dual score would have been 17-12 Mizzou and the match points would have been 47-31 Mizzou. A tech would have tied the dual 17-17. But we would have lost on criteria. The tech would have terminated Daton's match and prevented him from scoring more points.

I think CowboyUp61's snippet above is the key. You can't count match points for a pin so it has to be weighted more. But maybe it should go # of matches won, # of pins, # of techs, then total match points.
The object and hardest thing to do is pin a guy . So the team with the most of those wins I'm ok with that
 
Team A get 3 techs and 2 decisions. Team B gets 2 pins and 3 decisions. Dual is tied 21-21 and goes to criteria. Team B wins even though Team A bonus-ed "more" matches.
Well, at least as far as the criteria rules go, The Pin is still the point of wrestling (as it should be).
 
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