Kasich, Rubio should be tried for "treason"
- Thread starter BIGOSUFAN
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By that measure, then shouldn't every person or company who hires an "illegal" likewise be held accountable?
How many hundreds of illegals working on Trump's Mar-a-Largo related businesses in Florida, do you figure an INS raid would turn up?
This is where conservatives/republicans lose me in a lot of ways on the topic of illegal immigration. The reality is that so many of them utilize "illegals" in their business ventures (or look the other way when they employ contractors whose work-force is nearly 100% "illegals") so they can pay the lowest wages possible and maximize their profits. Also, those who are "illegal" are known not to raise as much stink about piss-poor working conditions, being shorted on paychecks, forced into a system akin to the old "company store" process, etc.
Is there anyone here who can seriously argue (with a straight face) that in every construction project in the US, where Trump played a role, that there wasn't a significant role played in the "labor" side of the equation by "illegals"?
Bottom line, without those in the US willing to look the other way, make the extra profits, etc and otherwise hire "illegals" there would be no incentives for the vast majority of those who are "illegal" to come here in the first place. I can understand why a poor person whose family is in danger of starving or lives in some crime ridden hell-hole would be willing to violate the law to try and improve their situation and you're a liar if you say you wouldn't likely do the same thing if you were in their shoes. So, let's put the blame where it lies - your fellow citizens who want the $$$$ that comes by supporting the system of employing illegals.
How many hundreds of illegals working on Trump's Mar-a-Largo related businesses in Florida, do you figure an INS raid would turn up?
This is where conservatives/republicans lose me in a lot of ways on the topic of illegal immigration. The reality is that so many of them utilize "illegals" in their business ventures (or look the other way when they employ contractors whose work-force is nearly 100% "illegals") so they can pay the lowest wages possible and maximize their profits. Also, those who are "illegal" are known not to raise as much stink about piss-poor working conditions, being shorted on paychecks, forced into a system akin to the old "company store" process, etc.
Is there anyone here who can seriously argue (with a straight face) that in every construction project in the US, where Trump played a role, that there wasn't a significant role played in the "labor" side of the equation by "illegals"?
Bottom line, without those in the US willing to look the other way, make the extra profits, etc and otherwise hire "illegals" there would be no incentives for the vast majority of those who are "illegal" to come here in the first place. I can understand why a poor person whose family is in danger of starving or lives in some crime ridden hell-hole would be willing to violate the law to try and improve their situation and you're a liar if you say you wouldn't likely do the same thing if you were in their shoes. So, let's put the blame where it lies - your fellow citizens who want the $$$$ that comes by supporting the system of employing illegals.
I wouldn't likely do the same thing so your assumption is wrong...there actually use to be this think called "making a country great by your actions," not giving up on your country and running to a country that has already made all the sacrifices to be great and will give you government largess right out of the gate. As someone who brought a foreigner here legally this really hits home now, it was expensive and filled with dealing with the government dbags who were almost entirely useless. We had to make 4 trips to OKC, just to get fingerprints done at each stage of the process (K1 visa, green card, visa with conditions and visa with no conditions). We still have yet another $650 USD to pay for her citizenship test...and yet these whiney ass criminal shitbirds say they don't/can't take the test because it's "too expensive." What a load....anybody that wants to be in the US and says the test is too expensive needs to hit the road.
Regan tried the amnesty route once before, with the promise by the dam democrats that they would enforce border controls, yea that worked out well huh. But they are all guilty for sure. Kasich is a complete putz and since Romney will now appear at his side in rallies, you know right where he is coming from.
How is that repubs/conservatives lose you by using "so many illegals in their business ventures," do libs/dems not as well. I bet most of the wineries in CA have the dam criminals working for them. The reason they continue to do jobs Americans won't, is because the government has made not working such a lucrative existence.
I would like to know how your such an authority about Trumps employees? But as usual your arguing that since "x" does it, then no problem that "y" does as well. They are all wrong. Read the article today about the 124 illegals that were let out of jail/prison that went on to commit another 138 murders, plus thousands of other crimes. Its bad enough with the native born population, but adding these scumbags to the mix is just stupid. Oh, and one of the reasons they don't return these convicted criminals to whence they came...their country of origin doesn't want them back. That is seriously f'ed up. The solution of course is chain them to the embassy's perimeter fence.
You simply can't surmise what someone may or may not do given an equal set of circumstances.
Regan tried the amnesty route once before, with the promise by the dam democrats that they would enforce border controls, yea that worked out well huh. But they are all guilty for sure. Kasich is a complete putz and since Romney will now appear at his side in rallies, you know right where he is coming from.
How is that repubs/conservatives lose you by using "so many illegals in their business ventures," do libs/dems not as well. I bet most of the wineries in CA have the dam criminals working for them. The reason they continue to do jobs Americans won't, is because the government has made not working such a lucrative existence.
I would like to know how your such an authority about Trumps employees? But as usual your arguing that since "x" does it, then no problem that "y" does as well. They are all wrong. Read the article today about the 124 illegals that were let out of jail/prison that went on to commit another 138 murders, plus thousands of other crimes. Its bad enough with the native born population, but adding these scumbags to the mix is just stupid. Oh, and one of the reasons they don't return these convicted criminals to whence they came...their country of origin doesn't want them back. That is seriously f'ed up. The solution of course is chain them to the embassy's perimeter fence.
You simply can't surmise what someone may or may not do given an equal set of circumstances.
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Hollywood makes a valid point about the incentive that exists currently for illegals to enter the country. The US Chamber of Commerce, and along with it big business in general, do not want things to change so they can keep their cheap labor pool. Republicans, including Trump, are hypocritical because they rant and rave against it but their actions are not consistent with their rhetoric. Democrats are at least consistent with their words and deeds even if you disagree.
If you want to stop illegals you don't need a wall, you need a jail cell to hold the CEOs of companies that hire illegals. No job equals no incentive equals no illegal immigration.
If you want to stop illegals you don't need a wall, you need a jail cell to hold the CEOs of companies that hire illegals. No job equals no incentive equals no illegal immigration.
In this instance, you didn't deploy your ninja Google skills.
He's admitted he did or probably has used "illegal" labor. He stated it's what's out there to utilize. He stayed that it's wrong and detrimental to the American worker. He went on to assert wants to change the playing field.
Pretty frank answer, akin to his admission that he's donated to Hillary for the purpose of influence.
Companies that don't utilize the cost mitigation discipline of hiring an adequate worker at a lesser rate of pay, say, someone here illegally, then you're running the risk of putting yourself out of business.
It's possible to value a certain position but operate in a practical manner with the playing field as it currently is.
We need immigration reform and we need a path to citizenship for many of these people. We can't afford to deport 11 million people. Trump can be elected but it still won't happen.
Arizona tried to impose restrictions on hiring illegals and was shot down by various courts at the behest of the administration.
We could afford to deport them if, at the same time, they restricted the government handouts (AFDC, food stamps, medicaid, section 8 and other programs) which encourage able bodied American citizen to not work.
Just interesting to me that there is such passion to enforce the law against illegal immigrants but not against the companies that illegally hire them. There is no point in arguing about whether it's ok to break the law in order to be more competitive in business....just have to agree to disagree.
Arizona passed a law to penalize businesses who hired illegal immigrants and was shot down by a federal court the day before it was to take effect and then the SCOTUS turned down Arizona's appeal.
I'm not advocating with gusto to deport or whatever. I'm advocating the protection of the integrity of the U.S. labor market, and that entails many things.
I'm also challenging some assertions that are tossed around here as if they are fact when clearly they are not, or can be improved upon (assertions ) with context added.
I'm also challenging some assertions that are tossed around here as if they are fact when clearly they are not, or can be improved upon (assertions ) with context added.
My bottom line, who is the bigger "law breaker"?
A. The poor sap who comes here because it's the only way he may see his children grow up without being lead into a life of crime (just watched a documentary last night on a Mexican City where nearly every girl over the age of 14 is forced into prostitution), where he/she can make enough to live and make certain their children don't go hungry and can actually get an education?
or;
B. The guy who is looking to make more $ and doesn't mind breaking the law by hiring and using illegal immigrants every chance they have?
Who do you think is displaying the more "despicable" characteristics and who should have the "anti-American" tag applied to them?
For me, our immigration system and policies are broke and need to be fixed. The strange thing to me is that for the first time since Carter was in office, the actual number of "illegals" in the US is shrinking. But all of a sudden some seek to act and think like this is the fastest growing problem facing this country.
A. The poor sap who comes here because it's the only way he may see his children grow up without being lead into a life of crime (just watched a documentary last night on a Mexican City where nearly every girl over the age of 14 is forced into prostitution), where he/she can make enough to live and make certain their children don't go hungry and can actually get an education?
or;
B. The guy who is looking to make more $ and doesn't mind breaking the law by hiring and using illegal immigrants every chance they have?
Who do you think is displaying the more "despicable" characteristics and who should have the "anti-American" tag applied to them?
For me, our immigration system and policies are broke and need to be fixed. The strange thing to me is that for the first time since Carter was in office, the actual number of "illegals" in the US is shrinking. But all of a sudden some seek to act and think like this is the fastest growing problem facing this country.
Imprimis,
You are 100% factually wrong with that claim:
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/article24640420.html
That would be dandy, Wood, to attempt to address
The U.S. government enables all of this by allowing it, and exacerbates the issue by not addressing it.
Until a system of control is exercised, with proper reforms to go with it, then the integrity of the labor market and entitlement programs is in question, and that slippage is always "net negative."
The U.S. government enables all of this by allowing it, and exacerbates the issue by not addressing it.
Until a system of control is exercised, with proper reforms to go with it, then the integrity of the labor market and entitlement programs is in question, and that slippage is always "net negative."
Squeak, I agree the people that hire the illegals and thereby exploit them should also be held accountable and suffer. You really won't have to deport many of them if the laws get stricter and then they are subsequently enforced. Many will just leave.
Another huge issue (and one that shows just how incompetent the federal government is) would be visa overstays...not only do you have millions of illegals streaming across the border, but many of the ones you let in through a major port of entry simply don't leave, even after a visa has expired. Just insane.
Wood, I understand that the numbers are shrinking...but they are still committing a large number of crimes. I suspect those folks will stay behind no matter what is done. I'm not going to act like this is the biggest problem facing this country, its one of many, but to diminish the effects it has on law abiding citizens is also missing the mark.
Another huge issue (and one that shows just how incompetent the federal government is) would be visa overstays...not only do you have millions of illegals streaming across the border, but many of the ones you let in through a major port of entry simply don't leave, even after a visa has expired. Just insane.
Wood, I understand that the numbers are shrinking...but they are still committing a large number of crimes. I suspect those folks will stay behind no matter what is done. I'm not going to act like this is the biggest problem facing this country, its one of many, but to diminish the effects it has on law abiding citizens is also missing the mark.
