Jon Snow Returns in 3 Weeks...
- Thread starter The Duke
- Start date
Do you think we find out his fate in the first episode of the season? Or, do we see them pick up his dead body and take it somewhere then have him revived in the 2nd episode.
I say they wait till next season to let us know. You know they have to one up TWD.
Me as well. I think your first post is most likely with them showing his body being moved, etc in the season premiere, thus giving the appearance that he isn't coming back.
What I'm interested to see is how they bring him back. Will it be Melisandre (sp?), or some other method?
I agree. As of now, the only realistic option (in my mind) is that Mel raises him like Thoros did Dondarion. They have laid the groundwork for this in that they showed us that Thoros can do it. They then had Mel meet Thoros and he shared with her what he was able to accomplish. They then (seemingly) went out of their way to have Mel leave Stannis outside Winterfell and travel back to Castle Black....only to arrive shortly before JS was (likely) killed.
But, maybe they will surprise me and something else will happen.
I've always thought Melisandre reviving (resurrecting?) Jon was the most likely scenario. That seems even more likely based on the show's portrayal compared to the book's portrayal since the show hasn't really played up the warging of anyone except Bran. It would seem really out of place for Jon to warg into Ghost when they haven't really shown it before. It would seem unearned to non-readers.
Exactly.
Even in the books, I have never bought into the "Jon wargs into Ghost" theory.
GRRM has established that if you warg into a beast, yo will lose your humanity the longer you stay in said beast. He has laid a lot of groundwork for Jon to A).eventually find out the truth about his parentage and B). develop into one of the protantagonists that plays a pivotal role in the salvation of Westeros before the story ends. It seems like clear human thought is integral to both of those things occurring.
I can buy that his consciousness spends a short time in Ghost between his death and Mel bringing him back to life. That would allow for Jon to be the POV of the events that occur between his death and revival. But, the longer his body is dead, the more of his humanity he loses (as shown by Lady Stoneheart and comments made by Dondarion). To me, it seems like GRRM would make the time between death and revival very short, as his loss of humanity would be accelerated due to him having 2 things working against him (warging and time dead). So, either he will only be dead for a short time, or he will be a very different character when he returns.
But, I don't see how the show can make the viewer believe that Jon has warged into Ghost, since the viewer can't see inside Ghost/Jon's mind like a reader can.
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He wargs into ghost then into one of the dragons.
Hey BTW did you guys see the article where some mathematicians broke done the characters to try to find out who the main character was? They came up with Tyrion. Very interesting and made me think maybe Jon isn't the answer after all.
Hey BTW did you guys see the article where some mathematicians broke done the characters to try to find out who the main character was? They came up with Tyrion. Very interesting and made me think maybe Jon isn't the answer after all.
Can you specifically reference this point? Lady Stoneheart barely says a word about anything, and Dondarrion references the number of times he's been resurrected, not the length of time he was dead.
I thought it was more about the times you are brought back then how long you are dead also.
Did you mean antagonists or protagonists here? I guess if you're a filthy White Walker-lover, that would make Jon an antagonist.
Hmmm. Maybe I have read too many essays on the matter, but my impression of Lady S is that she is a very evil version of Catelyn. When she interacts with Brienne and orders her men to hang Brienne, Podrick and Hyle Hunt, she shows no willingness to listen to reason and no signs of mercy. She comes across as someone who is on the warpath and eager to eliminate any and all who are in any way connected to the Frey's or Lannisters.
Now, I am sure you will say that she feels this way due to the horrible atrocities committed against Robb and against Catelyn (and Ned, Sansa, Arya). No wonder she doesn't trust any Freys or Lannisters, especially Jaime. But, I am pretty sure that even Thoros makes comments about Dondarion sacrificing himself but that Catelyn lost a lot of herself due to being dead too long.
However, you are correct that Dondarion talks about losing a little bit of himself each time he dies. So, maybe it is not a given that Jon will be different if he is only dead for 12 hours v. dead for 3 days.
I still say it will be a very short time, because if it is a long time, his tissues will begin to decay (like Catelyn did) and he will cease to look like a normal human. I just don't see him looking zombie like as his story progresses.
I did see that article but I hate math so when they started talking about derivatives and calculus I went back to looking at the pretty picture.
I was pleased with their findings, though, as I have always thought Tyrion would be the Man. I love Jon, but my love of Robb went nowhere.
Yes thank the heavens they had the picture. Also the picture was cool to see how all the characters fit together. Pretty cool little science or math experiment.
If nothing else, he'll fulfill Cersei's childhood fortune told by Maggy of death by her valonqar. And he'll do it alongside the young queen (Dany) who will take everything she holds dear.
Whether those things make him the man, I'm not sure.
A lot of folks are convinced that Jaime will end up being the Valonqar.
You people don't seriously believe Jon is coming back, do you? I just can't buy into any scenario that he does, with possible exception of the fire god.
I had always subscribed to the idea that Jon was not Ned's son, but the secret union between his sister and the Targarian king she was into I forget his name. This would explain why such a noble man brought back a bastard son he could never really explain, because on her deathbed she gave the boy to Ned and told him to tell no one. Would also explain why the Maester took such an immediate liking to him, as he was also of Targ blood. That would make him both a dragon and a wolf therefore the one true heir born of royal blood as he was the direct son of the King.
Therefore I always thought he was crucial to the story further and his story couldn't end there. I just don't know how they do it and fit in the story of what we know is possible in the show verses the book
I had always subscribed to the idea that Jon was not Ned's son, but the secret union between his sister and the Targarian king she was into I forget his name. This would explain why such a noble man brought back a bastard son he could never really explain, because on her deathbed she gave the boy to Ned and told him to tell no one. Would also explain why the Maester took such an immediate liking to him, as he was also of Targ blood. That would make him both a dragon and a wolf therefore the one true heir born of royal blood as he was the direct son of the King.
Therefore I always thought he was crucial to the story further and his story couldn't end there. I just don't know how they do it and fit in the story of what we know is possible in the show verses the book
That's people overthinking things IMO. Neither twin in any family is thought of as the "little brother or sister" to the other.
The only argument against Tyrion that holds any water is that it's too obvious, and just about all of the prophecy stuff is not straightforward.
Based on what you just wrote, and GRRM's typical M.O., I think it make it much more likely that it is Jaime instead of Tyrion. (for a multitude of reasons).
Cersei is certainly convinced that it is Tyrion. She thinks he killed Joffrey. She knows he killed their father. She knows that their mother died giving birth to him. In her mind, he is akin to an evil demon while Jaime has always been her true love. It would be right in GRRM's wheelhouse to have Cersei be the POV character at the moment that she realizes that the prophecy was not about Tyrion, but about Jaime....right before he chokes the life out of her.
Jon gets a funeral pyre and he is reborn from the fire coming back as Azor with the sword that Mormont gave him blazing like a flame thrower (Lightbringer). Not even sure Missandei is even required to be part of it.
The show/books are riddled with foreshadowing for this to be the case.
Disagree for two reasons.
1). I don't think we have seen any evidence that those who worship the Old Gods (which Snow clearly does) are burned on a funeral pyre after their death. Now, Melisandre is present, and she obviously worships fire, so maybe she could somehow convince the Black Brothers to build a funeral pyre for him, but it does not seem consistent with anything in the story to this point.
2). Supposedly Azor Ahai is "reborn from smoke and salt". Your theory would explain the "smoke" part, but where does the "salt" come into play? I guess you could claim that tears contain salt, but who is present that is going to cry for Jon Snow? I think it is more likely that the ocean has something to do with the appearance of AA, or he/she is a character that we have already seen and the prophecy becomes more clear later.
With that said, Mel chapters have said that she has looked into her fires for a vision of AA and the only thing she saw was "Snow", so that is a strong argument in favor of what you are saying. I guess my biggest issue is the funeral pyre idea as it seems like it would be a stretch to make that happen. Maybe Mel revives him in the way Thoros did Dondarion and something involving smoke and salt, happens later that fulfills the prophecy and makes him AA.
Ah. Hadn't thought of the Wight possibility. That makes perfect sense. Maybe PDT is right on.
I hope PDT goes more into the details on his theory. I also don't know if a pile of wood is the same as pyre but I would think so in theory at least.
God I am such a nerd when it comes to GOT. I can't get enough GOT talk and theories. I wish Martin would just drop the next book already.
Start from page one and re-read the whole thing. You'll be glad you did.
Not sure about tears being the source of salt. That being said, everyone was balling like a baby when they were stabbing him to death and yelling "for the watch"
