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Israel Is The Only Democracy In That Part Of The World

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Ponca Dan

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Dec 7, 2003
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The only democracy as long as you’re Jewish and white. After that not so much.


thegrayzone.com

How Israel’s white supremacy targets African refugees and Ethiopian Jews - The Grayzone

A documentary shows how African refugees and even Black Jewish Israelis are oppressed by Israel's systemic racism. By Ben Norton / AlterNet's Grayzone Project Israel portrays itself as a beacon of democracy and tolerance, but the reality is this putative tolerance and democracy apply only to its...
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How dare a country choose what it wants its societal makeup to be.

By the way, I love the very selective qualifications of your statements. The only "democracy". As opposed to all those free democracies like Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and Palestine that have such open and inclusive citizenry rules.

Sorry for the personal attack, but your posts are really getting dumber by the day.
 
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aix_xpert said:
How dare a country choose what it wants its societal makeup to be.

By the way, I love the very selective qualifications of your statements. The only "democracy". As opposed to all those free democracies like Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and Palestine that have such open and inclusive citizenry rules.

Sorry for the personal attack, but your posts are really getting dumber by the day.
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The point being ignored by your reply is Israeli policy requires two characteristics before it is a true democracy: you must be Jewish and you must be white. I don’t know if you’re either of those things but unless you’re both you would probably chafe at the unfairness/inequality at the way you would be treated if you moved there. If fact you might not survive the “selective qualification” process you find so admirable, and wouldn’t be permitted to move there.
 
Ponca Dan said:
The point being ignored by your reply is Israeli policy requires two characteristics before it is a true democracy: you must be Jewish and you must be white. I don’t know if you’re either of those things but unless you’re both you would probably chafe at the unfairness/inequality at the way you would be treated if you moved there. If fact you might not survive the “selective qualification” process you find so admirable, and wouldn’t be permitted to move there.
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Versus most any Muslim country out there? Yea give me Israel.
 
2012Bearcat said:
Versus most any Muslim country out there? Yea give me Israel.
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Israel will welcome you as long as you’re Jewish (of the Zionist bent, otherwise not so much) and white. If you aren’t both of those things you aren’t welcomed at all.
 
Ponca Dan said:
Israel will welcome you as long as you’re Jewish (of the Zionist bent, otherwise not so much) and white. If you aren’t both of those things you aren’t welcomed at all.
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I not sure I agree with that but I don't know it maybe true but what I do know that is how I would be treated in most Muslim Nations. At least with the Israelis they are not going to kill me because I'm not a Jew.
 
2012Bearcat said:
I not sure I agree with that but I don't know it maybe true but what I do know that is how I would be treated in most Muslim Nations. At least with the Israelis they are not going to kill me because I'm not a Jew.
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I remember a couple of years ago sharing a link with @aliabedi of a guy travelling the world and one of his stops was in Pakistan. People there treated him like royalty. He said Pakistan was his favorite stop anywhere in the world because the people were so friendly and helpful. Maybe your prejudice against Muslims is a little stronger than it should be.
 
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Ponca Dan said:
I remember a couple of years ago sharing a link with @aliabedi of a guy travelling the world and one of his stops was in Pakistan. People there treated him like royalty. He said Pakistan was his favorite stop anywhere in the world because the people were so friendly and helpful. Maybe your prejudice against Muslims is a little stronger than it should be.
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Yes, because seeing how the poorest in societies worship the wealthy white American is a great measure for the friendliness of a country. I wonder how he would have faired in that country if he chanted "Death to Pakistan" out on the streets. I bet he wouldn't be treated with the kid gloves that those out chanting "Death to America" while in America get. That's how you know America is a 'friendly' country.
 
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aix_xpert said:
Yes, because seeing how the poorest in societies worship the wealthy white American is a great measure for the friendliness of a country. I wonder how he would have faired in that country if he chanted "Death to Pakistan" out on the streets. I bet he wouldn't be treated with the kid gloves that those out chanting "Death to America" while in America get. That's how you know America is a 'friendly' country.
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In the first place I didn’t say anything about him being white or being an American. You’re doing what you do too often: jump to a conclusion in your eagerness to land a gotcha.

In the second place there would be no reason for him to shout Death to Pakistan as he had no brook with the country.

In the third place it’s a sad state of affairs when a citizen would not be allowed to yell Death to America if that’s what she felt. And it is concerning to me - and should be to you - when speech is silenced because it offends a snowflake. It is an indication of how far we have fallen as a country of free people when some of us insist speech should be squelched because someone might feel unsafe when they hear it. That you and others would welcome the arrest or imprisonment of someone who yells “Death to America” tells us exactly how friendly you want our nation to be. (I know I’ve jumped to a conclusion about you after teasing you about jumping to conclusions, but I got on a roll and decided it would do some good to rub your nose in some of the same tactics you use.)
 
Ponca Dan said:
In the first place I didn’t say anything about him being white or being an American. You’re doing what you do too often: jump to a conclusion in your eagerness to land a gotcha.

In the second place there would be no reason for him to shout Death to Pakistan as he had no brook with the country.

In the third place it’s a sad state of affairs when a citizen would not be allowed to yell Death to America if that’s what she felt. And it is concerning to me - and should be to you - when speech is silenced because it offends a snowflake. It is an indication of how far we have fallen as a country of free people when some of us insist speech should be squelched because someone might feel unsafe when they hear it. That you and others would welcome the arrest or imprisonment of someone who yells “Death to America” tells us exactly how friendly you want our nation to be. (I know I’ve jumped to a conclusion about you after teasing you about jumping to conclusions, but I got on a roll and decided it would do some good to rub your nose in some of the same tactics you use.)
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Another post where you avoid the actual substance of the post to go off on a narrative. I actually don't care that someone shouts "Death to America". I find it ironic that that person chooses (and they did choose) to live in a country where they feel that way. I'm a big believer in free speech. And they can chant all they want. But you can't threaten others. You can't break into buildings. You can't vandalize property. Those aren't protected rights. You want to stand on a street corner and bark nonsense all day. Go right ahead. But you don't have the right to supersede other's rights.

But you avoided the topic (which was telling). If you stood in the streets of Pakistan and barked "Death to Pakistan" while burning a Pakistani flag, you'd be LUCKY if you were ONLY arrested. In America, that's allowed.
As for jumping to conclusions on being white, I didn't. If he wasn't white, then how would those friendly Pakistani's know he was an American and be friendly with him? If he looks like other Pakistani's, then judging their friendliness really isn't much of a stretch or relative to how they would treat others. Its only if he's a white male (and you did say He, which was also telling, as I've been to Arab countries and know exactly what kind of second class citizens women are), that your post about it being a friendly country has any relevance to this conversation.
 
aix_xpert said:
Another post where you avoid the actual substance of the post to go off on a narrative. I actually don't care that someone shouts "Death to America". I find it ironic that that person chooses (and they did choose) to live in a country where they feel that way. I'm a big believer in free speech. And they can chant all they want. But you can't threaten others. You can't break into buildings. You can't vandalize property. Those aren't protected rights. You want to stand on a street corner and bark nonsense all day. Go right ahead. But you don't have the right to supersede other's rights.

But you avoided the topic (which was telling). If you stood in the streets of Pakistan and barked "Death to Pakistan" while burning a Pakistani flag, you'd be LUCKY if you were ONLY arrested. In America, that's allowed.
As for jumping to conclusions on being white, I didn't. If he wasn't white, then how would those friendly Pakistani's know he was an American and be friendly with him? If he looks like other Pakistani's, then judging their friendliness really isn't much of a stretch or relative to how they would treat others. Its only if he's a white male (and you did say He, which was also telling, as I've been to Arab countries and know exactly what kind of second class citizens women are), that your post about it being a friendly country has any relevance to this conversation.
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Real quick and then I’m done for the night. I didn’t say anything about the guy being white OR American. I didn’t describe him in any way. I simply said he loved his Pakistani experience. Sorry, my brother, you jumped to a conclusion.
 
aix_xpert said:
But you avoided the topic (which was telling).
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That's Ponca Dodge in a nutshell.

He still hasn't told us what he'd do if his neighbors came into his house, murdered his wife, kidnapped one of his children, and then promised to do it repeatedly until his entire family is dead. I suspect he has avoided answering it because he knows his answer would render all of his hysterical crying blatantly hypocritical. Despite his rhetoric, I don't think he's actually an insufferable pussy that wouldn't defend his own fanily.
 
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Ponca Dan said:
Real quick and then I’m done for the night. I didn’t say anything about the guy being white OR American. I didn’t describe him in any way. I simply said he loved his Pakistani experience. Sorry, my brother, you jumped to a conclusion.
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No. I applied logic and reason. Your story would sound pretty stupid if the guy is a Pakistani and is talking about how Pakistanis are the nicest people on earth. And the fact you've avoided denying my calculations tells me I'm probably right.
 
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aix_xpert said:
Another post where you avoid the actual substance of the post to go off on a narrative. I actually don't care that someone shouts "Death to America". I find it ironic that that person chooses (and they did choose) to live in a country where they feel that way. I'm a big believer in free speech. And they can chant all they want. But you can't threaten others. You can't break into buildings. You can't vandalize property. Those aren't protected rights. You want to stand on a street corner and bark nonsense all day. Go right ahead. But you don't have the right to supersede other's rights.

But you avoided the topic (which was telling). If you stood in the streets of Pakistan and barked "Death to Pakistan" while burning a Pakistani flag, you'd be LUCKY if you were ONLY arrested. In America, that's allowed.
As for jumping to conclusions on being white, I didn't. If he wasn't white, then how would those friendly Pakistani's know he was an American and be friendly with him? If he looks like other Pakistani's, then judging their friendliness really isn't much of a stretch or relative to how they would treat others. Its only if he's a white male (and you did say He, which was also telling, as I've been to Arab countries and know exactly what kind of second class citizens women are), that your post about it being a friendly country has any relevance to this conversation.
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Oh forgive me, I forgot you were there. Lets see, what is it you say I'm avoiding? First, let me applaud you for your stance on free speech, it's rather rare on this board. Yes, chanting Death to America and From the River to the Sea is permitted in America (so far) unless, of course it is chanted on a college campus where some students might be reduced to tears. Then it should be banned. I've never been to Pakistan (have you?) so I can't speak with authority as to what would happen if I stood in the street and shouted Death to Pakistan and burned their flag. You seem to have a degree of certainty that probably belies your actual knowledge, but I'll accept your claim and say I would probably be beaten and maybe arrested. In what city do you live (rhetorical question, you don't have to answer)? I suspect there are many cities in America (yours, maybe?) where if I stood in the street and shouted Death to America and burned the American flag I would similarly be beaten and possibly arrested for inciting violence. Maybe @aliabedi, who would know better than either of us, could step in and set us both straight. As for your introduction of women into the conversation (nice side hustle, by the way, good defelction), it's probably true women have it worse in Paksitan than America (unless they're wives or girlfriends of OU football fans after the Sooners lose a game). I know that's what we've been fed by the media for several decades. So it must be true! We should ask @aliabedi how many times a week he beats his wife and daughter.
 
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Medic007 said:
That's Ponca Dodge in a nutshell.

He still hasn't told us what he'd do if his neighbors came into his house, murdered his wife, kidnapped one of his children, and then promised to do it repeatedly until his entire family is dead. I suspect he has avoided answering it because he knows his answer would render all of his hysterical crying blatantly hypocritical. Despite his rhetoric, I don't think he's actually an insufferable pussy that wouldn't defend his own fanily.
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Damn, Medic, your humiliation from *weeks* ago must have burned you to the bone.
 
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aix_xpert said:
No. I applied logic and reason. Your story would sound pretty stupid if the guy is a Pakistani and is talking about how Pakistanis are the nicest people on earth. And the fact you've avoided denying my calculations tells me I'm probably right.
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Yeah, he was white, you calculated that correctly - congratulations! I have no idea if he was American or not. Should we conclude, based on your calculations, that white privilege extends all the way to Pakistan? That's some seious pivilege! But it's only*male* white privilege, right? It doesn't apply to white women, right?
 
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Ponca Dan said:
Oh forgive me, I forgot you were there. Lets see, what is it you say I'm avoiding? First, let me applaud you for your stance on free speech, it's rather rare on this board. Yes, chanting Death to America and From the River to the Sea is permitted in America (so far) unless, of course it is chanted on a college campus where some students might be reduced to tears. Then it should be banned. I've never been to Pakistan (have you?) so I can't speak with authority as to what would happen if I stood in the street and shouted Death to Pakistan and burned their flag. You seem to have a degree of certainty that probably belies your actual knowledge, but I'll accept your claim and say I would probably be beaten and maybe arrested. In what city do you live (rhetorical question, you don't have to answer)? I suspect there are many cities in America (yours, maybe?) where if I stood in the street and shouted Death to America and burned the American flag I would similarly be beaten and possibly arrested for inciting violence. Maybe @aliabedi, who would know better than either of us, could step in and set us both straight. As for your introduction of women into the conversation (nice side hustle, by the way, good defelction), it's probably true women have it worse in Paksitan than America (unless they're wives or girlfriends of OU football fans after the Sooners lose a game). I know that's what we've been fed by the media for several decades. So it must be true! We should ask @aliabedi how many times a week he beats his wife and daughter.
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You can joke about women, but it just shows how uninformed you really are about women in the Muslim world.

And you pretend that those on the campuses are peacefully chanting their phrases and singing. But the evidence says otherwise. They are breaking into buildings. They are using mob intimidation tactics. If we flipped the script and its was 300 white guys waving Confederate flags and surrounding some African American student who happened to get caught outside their dorm room, we'd be talking about how unacceptable and illegal that behavior is. So just because the student is Jewish, that behavior is acceptable? Freedom of speech is not freedom to intimidate.

And to answer your question, I live in Tampa. We allow protests here. You can chant Death to America. You just can't elevate your freedom of speech into mob intimidation. You don't have the right to interfere with others. And we do prosecute trespassing and vandalism.
 
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aix_xpert said:
You can joke about women, but it just shows how uninformed you really are about women in the Muslim world.

And you pretend that those on the campuses are peacefully chanting their phrases and singing. But the evidence says otherwise. They are breaking into buildings. They are using mob intimidation tactics. If we flipped the script and its was 300 white guys waving Confederate flags and surrounding some African American student who happened to get caught outside their dorm room, we'd be talking about how unacceptable and illegal that behavior is. So just because the student is Jewish, that behavior is acceptable? Freedom of speech is not freedom to intimidate.

And to answer your question, I live in Tampa. We allow protests here. You can chant Death to America. You just can't elevate your freedom of speech into mob intimidation. You don't have the right to interfere with others. And we do prosecute trespassing and vandalism.
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Good for you and good for Tampa. I've been there and it's a wonderful place. I suspect you are not as uninformed about women in the Muslim world as me, but I bet you don't know crap about what life is like for a typical Muslim woman in the Muslim world. You know what you've been told, I'd bet. I'll say again: let's ask @aliabedi.

Where are you getting your information about the campus protesters? God, I hate to say this, but it's true: the protests are mostly peaceful, the vast majority of the protesters are not inciting or participating in violence, and oftentimes it is anti-protestors who show up to agitate and cause problems because they know Fox News will portray it as being caused by the protestors. Not every time, I'm not saying that (before you once again jump to a faulty conclusion). What I am saying is there is what protesters say happened and there is what the anit-protesters, including the MSM stenographer class that reports what the government tells them to report, say. I bet you believe the anti-protestor version without fail. I would suggest that you might consider that the truth is somewhere in between the two versions. They both started something at one time or another. That said, as a person who abhors violence no mater from who it comes I agree that is not protected speech. Can we be friends now?
 
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Ponca Dan said:
Good for you and good for Tampa. I've been there and it's a wonderful place. I suspect you are not as uninformed about women in the Muslim world as me, but I bet you don't know crap about what life is like for a typical Muslim woman in the Muslim world. You know what you've been told, I'd bet. I'll say again: let's ask @aliabedi.
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I've lived there. My parents spent 13 years living in Saudi Arabia and visiting other parts of the Middle East. The story about how women are treated isn't "what I was told". That's YOU jumping to conclusions. Its what I've witnessed. I've seen a Mutawa walk up to my mother with an AK-47 and tell her to put her cover her head in public.

Ponca Dan said:
Where are you getting your information about the campus protesters? God, I hate to say this, but it's true: the protests are mostly peaceful, the vast majority of the protesters are not inciting or participating in violence, and oftentimes it is anti-protestors who show up to agitate and cause problems because they know Fox News will portray it as being caused by the protestors. Not every time, I'm not saying that (before you once again jump to a faulty conclusion). What I am saying is there is what protesters say happened and there is what the anit-protesters, including the MSM stenographer class that reports what the government tells them to report, say. I bet you believe the anti-protestor version without fail. I would suggest that you might consider that the truth is somewhere in between the two versions. They both started something at one time or another. That said, as a person who abhors violence no mater from who it comes I agree that is not protected speech. Can we be friends now?
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Was it counter protestors who broke in (trespassing and vandalism) and took over the Dean's building at Columbia U? Was it counter protestors who blocked major interstates and thorough fares (such as the Golden Gate bridge)? Yes, there may be peaceful protestors in the mix. But unfortunately, they've been usurped as hapless pawns by the lawless protestors who are leading them. And I've not referenced any occassion of clashes between the two. I actually agree with you that in many cases the counter protestors initiate that violence. Not much different than Charlotteville in that regard. A peaceful (yet still disgusting) protest that turns into a riot when the counter protestors showed up and the media gets to portray those with the disgusting opinion as the bad actors. The difference is that the anti-Israeli protestors earned their 'bad actor' label through their original actions (see the first 2 sentences). Those can't be blamed on media narrative or counter-protesting.
 
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aix_xpert said:
I've lived there. My parents spent 13 years living in Saudi Arabia and visiting other parts of the Middle East. The story about how women are treated isn't "what I was told". That's YOU jumping to conclusions. Its what I've witnessed. I've seen a Mutawa walk up to my mother with an AK-47 and tell her to put her cover her head in public.


Was it counter protestors who broke in (trespassing and vandalism) and took over the Dean's building at Columbia U? Was it counter protestors who blocked major interstates and thorough fares (such as the Golden Gate bridge)? Yes, there may be peaceful protestors in the mix. But unfortunately, they've been usurped as hapless pawns by the lawless protestors who are leading them. And I've not referenced any occassion of clashes between the two. I actually agree with you that in many cases the counter protestors initiate that violence. Not much different than Charlotteville in that regard. A peaceful (yet still disgusting) protest that turns into a riot when the counter protestors showed up and the media gets to portray those with the disgusting opinion as the bad actors. The difference is that the anti-Israeli protestors earned their 'bad actor' label through their original actions (see the first 2 sentences). Those can't be blamed on media narrative or counter-protesting.
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Ouch, that stung! I jumped to a conclusion and got slapped around for. Give the “win” to Medic. Poor boy is feeling low.

I don’t know who instigates any of it, do you? Who was that Jan 6 guy, Roy something? Was he a protester or a paid agitator? Weren’t there any number of FBI infiltrators there? Wasn’t the FBI responsible for the planned attack on the Michigan governor? My point is you should be skeptical of it ALL, not just the stuff I post.
 
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Ponca Dan said:
not just the stuff I post.
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No, just especially the stuff you post.

How's that new IDF BURIES A BUNCH OF PALESTINIANS IN NEW MASS GRAVES!!! story going? Did we confirm that Israel dug up a bunch of dead Gazans and killed them again? I did hear Hamas has acknowledged at least 100 of them were already dead and buried before the IDF apparently killed them again.
 
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Medic007 said:
No, just especially the stuff you post.

How's that new IDF BURIES A BUNCH OF PALESTINIANS IN NEW MASS GRAVES!!! story going? Did we confirm that Israel dug up a bunch of dead Gazans and killed them again? I did hear Hamas has acknowledged at least 100 of them were already dead and buried before the IDF apparently killed them again.
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Does Hamas count them as another KIA?
 
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2012Bearcat said:
Does Hamas count them as another KIA?
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If they don't they need to. Some of those poor Gazans have probably been killed half a dozen times. We need to know if we need to

a) celebrate each successive death with Hamas because 6 times martyred is better than once.

or

b) screech that the Jews are so genocidal they kill Gazans 6 times each instead of only killing them once with Dan.
 
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Medic007 said:
No, just especially the stuff you post.

How's that new IDF BURIES A BUNCH OF PALESTINIANS IN NEW MASS GRAVES!!! story going? Did we confirm that Israel dug up a bunch of dead Gazans and killed them again? I did hear Hamas has acknowledged at least 100 of them were already dead and buried before the IDF apparently killed them again.
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@Ponca Dan, any news on that IDF massacre of dead Palestinians?
 
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