Honest Question For @davidallen, @07Pilt And Any Other Leftist That Has An Answer

[Ponca Dan]

The primary theme of Akinsky’s rules is the overwhelming importance of remaining loyal to your cause. I have long felt that is why so many leftists willingly accept being lied to by their leaders. They know they are being lied to, but out of loyalty they believe the ends justify the means. I feel relatively confident that many of you know in your hearts the Democrats cheated and “stole” the recent election, but are not concerned about ramifications in the future because the ultimate goal of ousting Trump is all you cared about.

So my question is this: am I on the right track in my analysis of your attitude? I ask that you please not turn this into a “stolen election” thread, I merely used it as an example.

In fact let’s use a different example. There should be no argument that the southern border fiasco has turned into a full fledged crisis. And yet the Biden administration looks truly puzzled that it is being reported that way. Is your loyalty to the cause so deep that you willingly pretend there is no border crisis? Are you willing to accept any result as long as your team is steering the ship?

Please understand this as a serious, honest question. @davidallen I know if you respond at all the temptation will be to make a subtly sarcastic remark that is tangent to the spirit of the question. I plead with you not to do that. You have made it clear you are a third generation Democrat partisan, so you should have a historical legacy from which to draw a legitimate honest productive answer.

 

[07pilt]

The primary theme of Akinsky’s rules is the overwhelming importance of remaining loyal to your cause. I have long felt that is why so many leftists willingly accept being lied to by their leaders. They know they are being lied to, but out of loyalty they believe the ends justify the means. I feel relatively confident that many of you know in your hearts the Democrats cheated and “stole” the recent election, but are not concerned about ramifications in the future because the ultimate goal of ousting Trump is all you cared about.

So my question is this: am I on the right track in my analysis of your attitude? I ask that you please not turn this into a “stolen election” thread, I merely used it as an example.

In fact let’s use a different example. There should be no argument that the southern border fiasco has turned into a full fledged crisis. And yet the Biden administration looks truly puzzled that it is being reported that way. Is your loyalty to the cause so deep that you willingly pretend there is no border crisis? Are you willing to accept any result as long as your team is steering the ship?

Please understand this as a serious, honest question. @davidallen I know if you respond at all the temptation will be to make a subtly sarcastic remark that is tangent to the spirit of the question. I plead with you not to do that. You have made it clear you are a third generation Democrat partisan, so you should have a historical legacy from which to draw a legitimate honest productive answer.

Bad examples for me personally, Dan.

Some good examples: Ban fracking, Police state stuff like entrapping mentally disturbed teens and NSA shit, Gun control.

These fall under three categories.
1) Dems are uniquely advocating for a consequential bad policy that I know is pure bluster and they will not actually do.
2)Consequential and bad policy that is not unique to dems
3)Dems are uniquely advocating for something they actually will do but I don't find to be particularly consequential.

I personally despise HRC and Biden, but I also get defensive when their moderate half measures are attacked from the right flank.

(Stolen election? Really Dan?)

 

[iasooner2000]

Kill the Keystone on Day 1 yet reward Vlad with a European pipeline.
Go frack yourself

 

[Ponca Dan]

Bad examples for me personally, Dan.

Some good examples: Ban fracking, Police state stuff like entrapping mentally disturbed teens and NSA shit, Gun control.

These fall under three categories.
1) Dems are uniquely advocating for a consequential bad policy that I know is pure bluster and they will not actually do.
2)Consequential and bad policy that is not unique to dems
3)Dems are uniquely advocating for something they actually will do but I don't find to be particularly consequential.

I personally despise HRC and Biden, but I also get defensive when their moderate half measures are attacked from the right flank.

(Stolen election? Really Dan?)

It’s answers like this that always make me like you, Pilt. For the record I am well aware bad policies are not unique to Democrats, and Republican/Trump supporters have shown the exact same willingness to support bad policies from “their guys.” Lord knows I’ve had many a conflict with some Trumpsters over the slightest of slights. But the purpose of this thread is to see if you leftists will publicly acknowledge the depth of your loyalty makes you willing to suffer outrages from your team leaders. In that regard you left a pretty wimpy answer.

(Yes, really. Stolen election!)

 

[Syskatine]

It’s answers like this that always make me like you, Pilt. For the record I am well aware bad policies are not unique to Democrats, and Republican/Trump supporters have shown the exact same willingness to support bad policies from “their guys.” Lord knows I’ve had many a conflict with some Trumpsters over the slightest of slights. But the purpose of this thread is to see if you leftists will publicly acknowledge the depth of your loyalty makes you willing to suffer outrages from your team leaders. In that regard you left a pretty wimpy answer.

(Yes, really. Stolen election!)

I have no loyalty to biden or Democrats. I was disappointed with our last 2 nominees.

However, he doesn't lie to his base every 5 seconds like Trump. The border is still a shitshow and he's taken hits from the left, he just doesn't lie as clumsily and stupidly as Trump did.

I don't think you have much awareness of what people, much less libs, think outside of your libertarian reading material. Lots of discontent among libs with Biden. He's still way better than the guy he defeated handily.

Dan, you remember when i said Trump's biggest problem wasnt russia or bimbos? I said health care would take him down at the end of the day. It will Biden, too. He's doing NOTHING. He's a corporate lib.

 

[Ponca Dan]

I have no loyalty to biden or Democrats. I was disappointed with our last 2 nominees.

However, he doesn't lie to his base every 5 seconds like Trump. The border is still a shitshow and he's taken hits from the left, he just doesn't lie as clumsily and stupidly as Trump did.

I don't think you have much awareness of what people, much less libs, think outside of your libertarian reading material. Lots of discontent among libs with Biden. He's still way better than the guy he defeated handily.

Dan, you remember when i said Trump's biggest problem wasnt russia or bimbos? I said health care would take him down at the end of the day. It will Biden, too. He's doing NOTHING. He's a corporate lib.

Thank you for an honest and forthright reply. Maybe I’m fooling myself, but I think I have a pretty good handle on the dominant attitude of most leftists (and most Trump supporters as well.) But this thread is about leftists, not right wingers. What I hear you saying with this reply is you do not have loyalty to leftist actors, but to leftist causes. Fair enough, if true. But it seems to me you have traditionally been pretty supportive of leftist actors. But to be fair to you it has always seemed to me you don’t have a deep understanding of leftist philosophy, that mainly you project an emotionally charged hatred of anything to do with Republicans and DJT in particular. That’s how I’ve always seen you, anyway. But, again, thank you for your thoughtful reply.

 

[07pilt]

It’s answers like this that always make me like you, Pilt. For the record I am well aware bad policies are not unique to Democrats, and Republican/Trump supporters have shown the exact same willingness to support bad policies from “their guys.” Lord knows I’ve had many a conflict with some Trumpsters over the slightest of slights. But the purpose of this thread is to see if you leftists will publicly acknowledge the depth of your loyalty makes you willing to suffer outrages from your team leaders. In that regard you left a pretty wimpy answer.

(Yes, really. Stolen election!)

I don't consciously suffer outrages from my team leaders. If I do indeed suffer outrages, its because I have fooled myself into not believing they are outrages.

 

[Bitter Creek]

I have no loyalty to biden or Democrats. I was disappointed with our last 2 nominees.

However, he doesn't lie to his base every 5 seconds like Trump. The border is still a shitshow and he's taken hits from the left, he just doesn't lie as clumsily and stupidly as Trump did.

I don't think you have much awareness of what people, much less libs, think outside of your libertarian reading material. Lots of discontent among libs with Biden. He's still way better than the guy he defeated handily.

Dan, you remember when i said Trump's biggest problem wasnt russia or bimbos? I said health care would take him down at the end of the day. It will Biden, too. He's doing NOTHING. He's a corporate lib.

I almost liked your post... I just don’t agree that Biden is better than Trump

 

[JonnyVito]

I almost liked your post... I just don’t agree that Biden is better than Trump

IDK Russia seems to like the change pretty well.

 

[davidallen]

IDK Russia seems to like the change pretty well.

Do they? Seems the window is tighter just now. What indicates to you Russia prefers Biden to Trump?

 

[JonnyVito]

Do they? Seems the window is tighter just now. What indicates to you Russia prefers Biden to Trump?

lol

 

[davidallen]

lol

You can do it JV. Use your words.

 

[Medic007]

The border is still a shitshow and he's taken hits from the left, he just doesn't lie as clumsily and stupidly as Trump did.

He actually does lie as stupidly and clumsily as fatass, maybe even more so, like claiming there wasn't a border crisis.

 

[Syskatine]

He actually does lie as stupidly and clumsily as fatass, maybe even more so, like claiming there wasn't a border crisis.

No, Flailey, he doesn't. Fatass lies multiple times in one sentence, then contradicts shimslef in the next sentence, yet the same breath. Websites kept track of his lies and last I saw it was like, over 18,000.

The videos of him repeatedly guaranteeing he was gonna make Mexico pay for a big, beautiful, wall. That's up there with "Read my lips" and "I did not have sexual relations with that woman" for obvious, indefensible, hell of fame, silly lies. And Fatass did it dozens and dozens of times, in front of cameras, knowing that nothing like that was going to happen.

 

[Medic007]

Pedo Joe has been lying out his ass since he came into politics, dickbreath. We have 47 years of Biden data to work with. He had a presidential campaign derailed for PLAGIARISM FFS. Sorry, your idiotic gaslighting doesn't work on here, Queefa. Stick to what you do best, #bornswallowing and #bornswallowing.

 

[Sunburnt Indian]

He actually does lie as stupidly and clumsily as fatass, maybe even more so, like claiming there wasn't a border crisis.

Biden may not lie that much. I still can't count the times I've heard Mark Levin charge, "the Senate's stupidest."

 

[OUSOONER67]

Didn't Biden just lie recently saying White Supremacists are the greatest threat to our Country? Snicker.

 

[iasooner2000]

“Those folks cannot get access to lawyers and accountants”. Maybe burnt is correct and Pedo is that stupid

 

[osuintx]

Leftist stats you will never see or hear- anywhere - they have no defense- even though a few will actually BS on it a little


https://gab.com/JamesPidd/posts/106348158826858567

 

[On Tulsa Time]

The primary theme of Akinsky’s rules is the overwhelming importance of remaining loyal to your cause. I have long felt that is why so many leftists willingly accept being lied to by their leaders. They know they are being lied to, but out of loyalty they believe the ends justify the means. I feel relatively confident that many of you know in your hearts the Democrats cheated and “stole” the recent election, but are not concerned about ramifications in the future because the ultimate goal of ousting Trump is all you cared about.

So my question is this: am I on the right track in my analysis of your attitude? I ask that you please not turn this into a “stolen election” thread, I merely used it as an example.

In fact let’s use a different example. There should be no argument that the southern border fiasco has turned into a full fledged crisis. And yet the Biden administration looks truly puzzled that it is being reported that way.

Bad examples for me personally, Dan.

Some good examples: Ban fracking, Police state stuff like entrapping mentally disturbed teens and NSA shit, Gun control.

Why ban fracking serious question?
Agree police state is out of control.
NSA aka the state is out of control on all levels.
Explain your Gun control measures and how you feel they are lawful or logical.

 

[JimmyBob]

Maybe

Maybe's ass! I realize he read that from a teleprompter in between oatmeal chomps, but whoTF writes this insulting shit for him to spew?

 

[OUSOONER67]

Maybe's ass! I realize he read that from a teleprompter in between oatmeal chomps, but whoTF writes this insulting shit for him to spew?

"but whoTF writes this insulting shit for him to spew?"

Hunter

 

[JimmyBob]

"but whoTF writes this insulting shit for him to spew?"

Hunter

So, Hunter has to write script for "the big guy" in addition to funneling him gawd knows how much money?

 

[HighStickHarry]

Do they? Seems the window is tighter just now. What indicates to you Russia prefers Biden to Trump?

destabilizing America by racebaiting under Obama and Biden along with making putin a mythical figure during the russia hoax has been more beneficial than he could have imagined.

Similar to the klan waking up to the reality that segregation, defunding police and district attorneys letting off violent criminals who we know will hurt minorities is all being done by democrats. both putin and the klan just sit back and let it play out. Maybe grab a Crimea here and there as well.

There is no argument against the fact that democrats actions have the same result our enemies would want.

 

[CBradSmith]

Thank you for an honest and forthright reply. Maybe I’m fooling myself, but I think I have a pretty good handle on the dominant attitude of most leftists (and most Trump supporters as well.) But this thread is about leftists, not right wingers. What I hear you saying with this reply is you do not have loyalty to leftist actors, but to leftist causes. Fair enough, if true. But it seems to me you have traditionally been pretty supportive of leftist actors. But to be fair to you it has always seemed to me you don’t have a deep understanding of leftist philosophy, that mainly you project an emotionally charged hatred of anything to do with Republicans and DJT in particular. That’s how I’ve always seen you, anyway. But, again, thank you for your thoughtful reply.

Dont know whether to HaHa emoji or Heart Eyes emoji this.

Not a bad thread.

 

[CBradSmith]

It’s answers like this that always make me like you, Pilt.

Samesies

 

[07pilt]

Why ban fracking serious question?

Its a dumb policy but it is bluster from people without any power.

Agree police state is out of control.
NSA aka the state is out of control on all levels.

agreed

Explain your Gun control measures and how you feel they are lawful or logical.

I don't care about gun control. I am not in the market to buy a gun, I am not likely to be shot by a gun, I don't think regulation of guns is unconstitutional, I don't think the proposed legislation would be effective at reducing gun violence. I don't care. It's a colossal waste of time.

I think you misunderstood my post. Those are items I disagree with Dems on.

 

[On Tulsa Time]

Its a dumb policy but it is bluster from people without any power.

agreed

I don't care about gun control. I am not in the market to buy a gun, I am not likely to be shot by a gun, I don't think regulation of guns is unconstitutional, I don't think the proposed legislation would be effective at reducing gun violence. I don't care. It's a colossal waste of time.

I think you misunderstood my post. Those are items I disagree with Dems on.

Gotcha, I thought those were your stances.

 

[aliabedi]

The primary theme of Akinsky’s rules is the overwhelming importance of remaining loyal to your cause. I have long felt that is why so many leftists willingly accept being lied to by their leaders. They know they are being lied to, but out of loyalty they believe the ends justify the means. I feel relatively confident that many of you know in your hearts the Democrats cheated and “stole” the recent election, but are not concerned about ramifications in the future because the ultimate goal of ousting Trump is all you cared about.

So my question is this: am I on the right track in my analysis of your attitude? I ask that you please not turn this into a “stolen election” thread, I merely used it as an example.

In fact let’s use a different example. There should be no argument that the southern border fiasco has turned into a full fledged crisis. And yet the Biden administration looks truly puzzled that it is being reported that way. Is your loyalty to the cause so deep that you willingly pretend there is no border crisis? Are you willing to accept any result as long as your team is steering the ship?

Please understand this as a serious, honest question. @davidallen I know if you respond at all the temptation will be to make a subtly sarcastic remark that is tangent to the spirit of the question. I plead with you not to do that. You have made it clear you are a third generation Democrat partisan, so you should have a historical legacy from which to draw a legitimate honest productive answer.

Please explain how could the democrats cheated trump out of last election. Looking at 2016 and 2020 results which are identical In key states as far as trumps win there and bidens win in 2020.
Democrats were able to get few more votes out compared to 2016.
Cheating would have been I'd bien had won in oklahoma.

 

[launch]

Please explain how could the democrats cheated trump out of last election. Looking at 2016 and 2020 results which are identical In key states as far as trumps win there and bidens win in 2020.
Democrats were able to get few more votes out compared to 2016.
Cheating would have been I'd bien had won in oklahoma.

Oh for crying out loud. I am and have been beyond over all the “stop the steal” nonsense, but someone in Pakistan is going throw their two cents in?

Really?

 

[CBradSmith]

Please explain how could the democrats cheated trump out of last election. Looking at 2016 and 2020 results which are identical In key states as far as trumps win there and bidens win in 2020.
Democrats were able to get few more votes out compared to 2016.
Cheating would have been I'd bien had won in oklahoma.

All your base are belong to us.

 

[Syskatine]

What I hear you saying with this reply is you do not have loyalty to leftist actors, but to leftist causes.

That would be true. I'm surprised to see a man of your age adopt the lingo and nomenclature of media figures, though.

But it seems to me you have traditionally been pretty supportive of leftist actors.

Not really. I thought Obama was treated horribly. Was lukewarm on Clinton -- frankly didn't like him before the republicans went crazy with white water.

But to be fair to you it has always seemed to me you don’t have a deep understanding of leftist philosophy, that mainly you project an emotionally charged hatred of anything to do with Republicans and DJT in particular.

I understand various political ideologies (maybe not utopian anarchism) I just don't think we should be a slave to ideology. All political ideologies are manipulated by the power hungry, and all have their good and bad points. I'm very conservative in some ways and very liberal in others. My positions are mostly real world, though, not fantasy through a lens of right wing radio.

You are correct about the rest of that quote. I am pretty much a mirror of right wing tactics and political thought. Trump is "Fatass" and Melania is "FLHOTUS" and I demean them and pile on populist criticisms of conservatives and occasionally respond with mean, ad hominem attacks, and the response on the board is good fuel for a PhD thesis in cognitive dissonance. Take you. At least a dozen conservative posters do nothing but bash libs -- "leftists" over the last couple of years. Nary a peep. It's typically only offensive when the liberal engages in those tactics. You're not far off, though.

 

[Ponca Dan]

Please explain how could the democrats cheated trump out of last election. Looking at 2016 and 2020 results which are identical In key states as far as trumps win there and bidens win in 2020.
Democrats were able to get few more votes out compared to 2016.
Cheating would have been I'd bien had won in oklahoma.

Welcome back, Ali! You have been missed! Obviously I don’t *know* the Democrats cheated. But there were too many anomalies that made no sense, and every one of them broke for Biden. The fact that there was a red tsunami on the down vote, and yet Biden received 81 million votes just defies all logic.

But that is not the purpose of this thread. Do you, Ali, consider that loyalty to your team/cause trumps any inconsistency or very bad policy your leaders make? If you were an American living in America, for example, would you be like @davidallen and dismiss the violence perpetrated by Antifa and BLM as a necessary condition to oust DJT? Or in another example would you be okay with your team leaders, in concert with the MSM, turning the Covid pandemic into a political football even though their actions probably resulted in tens of thousands of unnecessary deaths just so you could chase Trump away?

How far does your loyalty to your team go? Have you bought into Alinsky’s insistence that you be loyal no matter what?

The question is directed at you personally and requires a personal reply without resorting to “whataboutism.” If you want to start a thread asking the same question of the Trump faithful please be my guest. But I beg of you to stay on point and don’t turn this into yet another pissing contest between loyalists.

 

[07pilt]

Welcome back, Ali! You have been missed! Obviously I don’t *know* the Democrats cheated. But there were too many anomalies that made no sense, and every one of them broke for Biden. The fact that there was a red tsunami on the down vote, and yet Biden received 81 million votes just defies all logic.

Down ballot Dems won the popular vote by 3%.

 

[MR. TANNER BOYLE]

I don't care about gun control. I am not in the market to buy a gun, I am not likely to be shot by a gun, I don't think regulation of guns is unconstitutional, I don't think the proposed legislation would be effective at reducing gun violence. I don't care. It's a colossal waste of time.

I agree with this sentiment and it applies to a bunch of issues. You only feel this way about gun control?

 

[GunsOfFrankEaton]

 

[Ponca Dan]

That would be true. I'm surprised to see a man of your age adopt the lingo and nomenclature of media figures, though.


Not really. I thought Obama was treated horribly. Was lukewarm on Clinton -- frankly didn't like him before the republicans went crazy with white water.


I understand various political ideologies (maybe not utopian anarchism) I just don't think we should be a slave to ideology. All political ideologies are manipulated by the power hungry, and all have their good and bad points. I'm very conservative in some ways and very liberal in others. My positions are mostly real world, though, not fantasy through a lens of right wing radio.

You are correct about the rest of that quote. I am pretty much a mirror of right wing tactics and political thought. Trump is "Fatass" and Melania is "FLHOTUS" and I demean them and pile on populist criticisms of conservatives and occasionally respond with mean, ad hominem attacks, and the response on the board is good fuel for a PhD thesis in cognitive dissonance. Take you. At least a dozen conservative posters do nothing but bash libs -- "leftists" over the last couple of years. Nary a peep. It's typically only offensive when the liberal engages in those tactics. You're not far off, though.

Your criticism is well taken, and has made me reflect on my attitudes toward the left and the right political spectrum, both of which I view with suspicion. I do admit I see the leftist ideology (socialism, welfare statism, critical race theory, etc.) to be far more dangerous to our short term liberty than it weaker cousin on the right. I don’t think you will deny - how could anyone deny? - that left wing ideology is on the rise while the “little brother” Republicans on the right are in all out defensive mode.
So my criticisms are mainly focused on the left, and deservedly so IMO.

When DJT was president I was unabashedly critical of many of his policies, so much so that most Trump loyalists viewed me with disdain if not outright contempt. I remember telling them they would have loved me if Hillary had won. Well, Hillary’s next of kin, Joe Biden and Kamala Harris, have now won and this is my chance to prove what I said back then was true.

 

[Ponca Dan]

Down ballot Dems won the popular vote by 3%.

If you know that you obviously pay much closer attention to those details than I. It is my understanding that Republicans gained seats in the House (while just the opposite was expected), and that Republicans added to their governorships and control of state legislatures. Am I mistaken about that?

 

[07pilt]

I agree with this sentiment and it applies to a bunch of issues. You only feel this way about gun control?

Just an example

 

[07pilt]

If you know that you obviously pay much closer attention to those details than I. It is my understanding that Republicans gained seats in the House (while just the opposite was expected), and that Republicans added to their governorships and control of state legislatures. Am I mistaken about that?

Hmm makes you think huh?