Here We Go Again

[Ponca Dan]

Now Emperor Donald - excuse me, I mean President Trump - wants to impose a 25% tariff on imported autos. In the name of national defense. I know he has enjoyed great success in his games of brinksmanship, so far all of his adversaries have blinked. But eventually someone is going to stand up to his bullying, and the poo is going to hit the fan.


https://madabouttrade.com/a-car-tar...the-auto-industry-and-the-nation-66efb9a780b1

 

[windriverrange]

Dan do you save all the fish hooks from Trumps new “pronouncements” that are removed from your mouth or have you had to buy a semi to haul all of them down to the scrap metal center for recycling?

 

[Ponca Dan]

Dan do you save all the fish hooks from Trumps new “pronouncements” that are removed from your mouth or have you had to buy a semi to haul all of them down to the scrap metal center for recycling?

I tend to defend a Trump policy when I think he’s on the right track (deregulation, for example), and criticize him when I think he’s dead wrong. I think he is wrong on this issue.

As the article says right up front, his threat of a 25% tariff (tax) on imported automobiles may be a gambit to pressure Mexico and Canada into caving on NAFTA. Trump loves to play the bully, he loves the brinksmanship. He thinks he’s playing with house money, but in fact he’s toying with our money and our lives.

Eventually a bully gets punched in the mouth. The problem is it will be our mouthes that will bleed. If his bluff gets called this time you can expect to see the price of a new car increase significantly. Don’t blame the auto makers if that happens. They have made it clear they are opposed to the tariff.

Only the unions like the idea. Trump is playing politics, trying to secure the union vote in the Rust Belt for his reelection. We get to pay more for a new car so he can get re-elected.

 

[windriverrange]

Ponca I like ya man, so just playing with ya some.

Here’s the deal and really a simple couple of questions to answer.

When governments see the US (Ultimate Sugardaddy, thank you Lewis Grizzard) coming are they in it to negotiate fairly, or take advantage of us?

Does Mexico and Canada need to US more than we need them?

I don’t think he’s being a bully at all, he is looking out for Americans/in America something which the ex-rodent in chief didn’t do, Bush did some but still didn’t do that great and Clinton didn’t do. I trust that DJT won’t sell The US down the river so he can get his pole smoked by the collective world community.

 

[Ponca Dan]

Ponca I like ya man, so just playing with ya some.

Here’s the deal and really a simple couple of questions to answer.

When governments see the US (Ultimate Sugardaddy, thank you Lewis Grizzard) coming are they in it to negotiate fairly, or take advantage of us?

Does Mexico and Canada need to US more than we need them?

I don’t think he’s being a bully at all, he is looking out for Americans/in America something which the ex-rodent in chief didn’t do, Bush did some but still didn’t do that great and Clinton didn’t do. I trust that DJT won’t sell The US down the river so he can get his pole smoked by the collective world community.

I like you, too, windriverrange. Don’t worry, I wear big boy pants, I’m accustomed to my point of view being frowned upon by one side or the other. I can take it.

Let me answer your question this way: Mexico, Canada, China, England, Germany, France, Italy, the whole of Western Europe, NATO, Japan, Korea, Australia, New Zealand, Norway, Ireland, Russia, virtually all the Middle East, virtually all of Africa - have I left any country out? - needs the US more than the US needs any one of them. Let me ask you: does the US need the rest of the world more or less than the rest of the world needs the US?

I ask that question for a reason. In his quest to “protect” the US from what he considers bad trade policies DJT is in the process of pissing off everybody else. Eventually some combination of those countries that individually need our trade more than we need theirs are going to join together and poke DJT in the eye. His brinksmanship with individual countries is working to his benefit. If he tries it against a combination of countries, and those countries don’t blink, but instead tell him to go xxxx himself, his threat will be diluted and he may spawn a world wide trade war that will cause massive economic damage across the globe.

Economists have been begging him to wake up. But he is convinced he knows better, and he is just stubborn enough to bring us to fiscal ruin.

Last night I read a very long article by an American diplomat who discussed how the NATO nations, along with the European Union, are seething at his actions. They cannot decide whether to try and wait out his presidency or to confront him now. They are having meetings to discuss what reactions they can take against what they consider to be his bullying.

I agree there are a lot of inequities between the US and the EU. But do we really want to destroy an alliance that has been around for 70 years? Next time we ask England or France to commit troops to a military action we want to pursue in Syria, for example, how are we going to like it if they say no?

The article to which I refer was written in very diplomatic terms. It was not a screed against Trump. It was an obvious attempt by a diplomat on the scene to be a “canary in the coal mine.”

If Trump leads us to a trade war he can't say he wasn’t warned. He has been warned - repeatedly - by virtually every political wing that exists.

 

[JimmyBob]

Ultimate Sugardaddy, thank you Lewis Grizzard)

Shoot Low Boys, They're Riding Shetland Ponies.........

 

[aix_xpert]

I will agree with you on one area here, Ponca. While I've been supportive that the initial tariff actions were intended to re-open trade negotiations and has been successful thus far for President Trump, I have my concerns about going to this well too many times. You aren't wrong about the long-term economic impacts of tariffs and eventually one of our negotiating partners is going to 'call the bluff' and that will put Trump in a tenuous position of either walking back his tariffs, or enacting them fully and suffering the potential consequences. What I'm not sure is whether this go around will be the 'one too many'.

 

[windriverrange]

Let me ask you: does the US need the rest of the world more or less than the rest of the world needs the US?

LESS!


Last night I read a very long article by an American diplomat who discussed how the NATO nations, along with the European Union, are seething at his actions. They cannot decide whether to try and wait out his presidency or to confront him now. They are having meetings to discuss what reactions they can take against what they consider to be his bullying.

First, I would like to know who the diplomat is, who appointed him/her and what their street creds are. Second, who gives a shit if the pussy Europeans are pissed at him and having secret meetings to "confront him" now or later.

The EU is history, just doesn't know it yet. The countries that brought you WWI (~180,000 US Dead), The Balfour Agreement guaranteeing the ME's instability even more than it already was, WWII (~490,000 US dead) and let the Balkans spin out of control want to confront him...good luck with that.

With the exception of the Limeys, Canadians and Aussie not too worried what the mighty French, Belgium's or Spaniards think…..oh forgot the mighty Italians also

Want to know when people/countries are serious about getting even with the US? They will start closing US bases down and telling us to get our troops out....yea that same umbrella of protection most pay little if anything for and get the right to bitch and moan while at the same time sleeping in the shadow of the American flag guaranteeing their very freedom to cry about everything they don't like.

The thing is, I’ve traveled in Turkey numerous times the last 8 months (will be there again next week), have been in Canada and Australia (twice in 4 months) and the political subjects, tariffs or hell even Trump rarely if ever come up.

Three weeks ago, was in Adelaide for a conference and the only thing my buddies were mad a t Trump about was the DOI allowing the importation of big game trophy kills back into the US, something which I agree with BTW. After that, they could care less. The liberal party in Australia is touting tax breaks for businesses and individuals now and you talk about a group that wants to button up their borders……fun conversations.


I agree there are a lot of inequities between the US and the EU. But do we really want to destroy an alliance that has been around for 70 years?

The Alliance would be hard pressed to ever be destroyed, IMHO. I asked earlier who needs who worse and you ran through a list of countries that were a petri dish of worldwide groups with their hands perpetually out. The Alliance, much like treaties, have been fairly one-sided and passed because people like the ex-rodent in chief, Kerry, Clinton, Bush etc etc, want their poles smoked by the Europeans……the same Europeans that have never met a handout they didn’t like. They are currently destroying their own countries from within and we care about alliances purchased primarily by American treasure and blood why?


Next time we ask England or France to commit troops to a military action we want to pursue in Syria, for example, how are we going to like it if they say no?

How about WE NEVER GET INVOLVED IN THE ME AGAIN, except to ensure Israel survives. Even that would only require weapons and money though, as they could defend themselves against any ground army the muslims put together.

I agree if he leads us into a trade war, he will not be able to say he wasn't warned. I also think that the measure by which he pushes is the measure by which that particular country can be pushed. He has so many "seasoned" diplomats pissed they are buying everything he does/says at the accelerated liberal media spastic flip out rate, instead of face value.
He may be a complete bomb, when all is said and done....but one thing for sure, he really has succeeded to a far greater degree than many thought he ever could and for that he at least should get lots of latitude.
Oh did I mention before....screw the Europeans, bunch of whinny ass clowns. Worrying about what they think, would be the absolute worst possible course of action for anyone, except a dictator intent on over running all of them.

 

[Ponca Dan]

Let me ask you: does the US need the rest of the world more or less than the rest of the world needs the US?

LESS!


Last night I read a very long article by an American diplomat who discussed how the NATO nations, along with the European Union, are seething at his actions. They cannot decide whether to try and wait out his presidency or to confront him now. They are having meetings to discuss what reactions they can take against what they consider to be his bullying.

First, I would like to know who the diplomat is, who appointed him/her and what their street creds are. Second, who gives a shit if the pussy Europeans are pissed at him and having secret meetings to "confront him" now or later.

The EU is history, just doesn't know it yet. The countries that brought you WWI (~180,000 US Dead), The Balfour Agreement guaranteeing the ME's instability even more than it already was, WWII (~490,000 US dead) and let the Balkans spin out of control want to confront him...good luck with that.

With the exception of the Limeys, Canadians and Aussie not too worried what the mighty French, Belgium's or Spaniards think…..oh forgot the mighty Italians also

Want to know when people/countries are serious about getting even with the US? They will start closing US bases down and telling us to get our troops out....yea that same umbrella of protection most pay little if anything for and get the right to bitch and moan while at the same time sleeping in the shadow of the American flag guaranteeing their very freedom to cry about everything they don't like.

The thing is, I’ve traveled in Turkey numerous times the last 8 months (will be there again next week), have been in Canada and Australia (twice in 4 months) and the political subjects, tariffs or hell even Trump rarely if ever come up.

Three weeks ago, was in Adelaide for a conference and the only thing my buddies were mad a t Trump about was the DOI allowing the importation of big game trophy kills back into the US, something which I agree with BTW. After that, they could care less. The liberal party in Australia is touting tax breaks for businesses and individuals now and you talk about a group that wants to button up their borders……fun conversations.


I agree there are a lot of inequities between the US and the EU. But do we really want to destroy an alliance that has been around for 70 years?

The Alliance would be hard pressed to ever be destroyed, IMHO. I asked earlier who needs who worse and you ran through a list of countries that were a petri dish of worldwide groups with their hands perpetually out. The Alliance, much like treaties, have been fairly one-sided and passed because people like the ex-rodent in chief, Kerry, Clinton, Bush etc etc, want their poles smoked by the Europeans……the same Europeans that have never met a handout they didn’t like. They are currently destroying their own countries from within and we care about alliances purchased primarily by American treasure and blood why?


Next time we ask England or France to commit troops to a military action we want to pursue in Syria, for example, how are we going to like it if they say no?

How about WE NEVER GET INVOLVED IN THE ME AGAIN, except to ensure Israel survives. Even that would only require weapons and money though, as they could defend themselves against any ground army the muslims put together.

I agree if he leads us into a trade war, he will not be able to say he wasn't warned. I also think that the measure by which he pushes is the measure by which that particular country can be pushed. He has so many "seasoned" diplomats pissed they are buying everything he does/says at the accelerated liberal media spastic flip out rate, instead of face value.
He may be a complete bomb, when all is said and done....but one thing for sure, he really has succeeded to a far greater degree than many thought he ever could and for that he at least should get lots of latitude.
Oh did I mention before....screw the Europeans, bunch of whinny ass clowns. Worrying about what they think, would be the absolute worst possible course of action for anyone, except a dictator intent on over running all of them.

Let me propose a nightmare scenario, one I concede up front is 99.999% certain never to happen. But play along with me here.

Suppose Trump enacts a 25% tariff on all foreign made autos sold in America. That so infuriates the rest of the world’s auto makers and their governments that they convene and come up with a counter attack. Suppose they persuade China to impose a 25% tariff on all American made cars sold in China, but impose no tariffs in any other country’s cars for one year. The 1.3 billion citizens of China are now made available to all car makers but the Americans. The world’s car makers announce they will cease all operations in America for the time being in order to ramp up their Chinese market. No foreign automobiles will be shipped to America, but rather will be diverted to China. All American operations will be temporarily shut down, no more manufacturing in the US, no autos supplied to their existing dealers. All employees of these manufacturing plants, all employees of the dealerships will be furloughed for that length of time. Millions of American jobs are squashed overnight. All those people are at the unemployment office the next day.

If that scenario were to play out (remember I concede it won’t play out) would you still say that the rest of the world needs the US more than the US needs the rest of the world?