Healthcare possibility....

[CBradSmith]

Saw this and wanted some opinions.

@Syskatine
@HighStickHarry
@AC2017
@windriverrange
@GunsOfFrankEaton
@MegaPoke
@Pokeabear
@N. Pappagiorgio
And all you others....

 

[Syskatine]

Saw this and wanted some opinions.

@Syskatine
@HighStickHarry
@AC2017
@windriverrange
@GunsOfFrankEaton
@MegaPoke
@Pokeabear
@N. Pappagiorgio
And all you others....

View embedded media

Worth a look!

 

[iasooner1]

Cash for clunkers

 

[AC_Exotic]

I don't trust the government to do things right.

Before Obamacare the idiots in DC were promising cheaper healthcare with great coverage. Government Marketplace coverage sucks. Might as well not even have it.

They'll screw the above proposal as well.

 

[CBradSmith]

I don't trust the government to do things right.

Before Obamacare the idiots in DC were promising cheaper healthcare with great coverage. Government Marketplace coverage sucks. Might as well not even have it.

They'll screw the above proposal as well.

This proposal seems to create a threshold of coverage associated with the real risk of the person.

Because it connects the risk to premium (instead of premium to income), it likely creates a more competitive private insurer market.

What isn't written about but interesting to consider is the possibility of monetarily incentivizing better health choices.

Say you work your way from Risk group 5 to 3, you saved Uncle Sam $1200 ...you get $1000 of that in cash.

 

[2012Bearcat]

Sorry but I'm not interested in giving government anymore control of anything.

 

[CBradSmith]

Sorry but I'm not interested in giving government anymore control of anything.

More of a conduit really.

But you bring up a good, if inarticulated, point....Pols may rob the higher risk groups associated with tail end of life expenses to budget elsewhere.

Then what? You're gonna die anyway, so they didnt "lose" your vote.

 

[2012Bearcat]

More of a conduit really.

But you bring up a good, if inarticulated, point....Pols may rob the higher risk groups associated with tail end of life expenses to budget elsewhere.

Then what? You're gonna die anyway, so they didnt "lose" your vote.

You really want government influencing how you live your life? Remember authoritarian governments don't start out being authoritarian but they do know how to eat an elephant.

 

[CBradSmith]

You really want government influencing how you live your life? Remember authoritarian governments don't start out being authoritarian but they do know how to eat an elephant.

I keep in shape, so I welcome incentives.

That aside, no, after this last round of government spying, targeting, setting people up, etc.....I don't suppose I'd trust a Pol further than I could throw them.

@Syskatine see what you've done with Obama and your sanctioning of all the things I listed above? How do we fix all the damage he's done? Don't give me "but Trump." Trump fibs on the reg to make you monkeys dance (and you do), but the sinister stuff the Obama Admin did...how is a citizen supposed to trust government to administer this or anything (new) really?

 

[Soonersincefitty]

I keep in shape, so I welcome incentives.

That aside, no, after this last round of government spying, targeting, setting people up, etc.....I don't suppose I'd trust a Pol further than I could throw them.

@Syskatine see what you've done with Obama and your sanctioning of all the things I listed above? How do we fix all the damage he's done? Don't give me "but Trump." Trump fibs on the reg to make you monkeys dance (and you do), but the sinister stuff the Obama Admin did...how is a citizen supposed to trust government to administer this or anything (new) really?

I keep in shape too.
Supposed to exercise in proportion to your age.
At 69, two pushups a day.

 

[Syskatine]

I keep in shape, so I welcome incentives.

That aside, no, after this last round of government spying, targeting, setting people up, etc.....I don't suppose I'd trust a Pol further than I could throw them.

@Syskatine see what you've done with Obama and your sanctioning of all the things I listed above? How do we fix all the damage he's done? Don't give me "but Trump." Trump fibs on the reg to make you monkeys dance (and you do), but the sinister stuff the Obama Admin did...how is a citizen supposed to trust government to administer this or anything (new) really?

Malarkey.

No worries for me though, the current system isn't sustainable. It'll be single payer eventually.

 

[blbronco]

I am as "screw big brother" as anybody, but I always chuckle when I hear someone say how much they don't want the government controlling anything, but fully trust big business (in this case, insurance companies) to work with them. Some of you have witnessed far better from companies like that than I have. One wants power over you (bad), the other wants take take as much of your money as they can while giving you as little as possible (also bad).

The current system is a massive drain on the national GDP, but it does promote ingenuity and advancement of capabilities. I actually agree with syskatine. Eventually, a single-payer system will be the way we go. I do not care for most systems. I think Sweden's system is great for their lower population and low overall population density, but would not work here. I am still very interested in what we can do with a modified Switzerland system.

Many of you bitch and moan about abortions, yet ignore the fact that the US has among the highest neonatal mortality rates in industrialized nations. Though I am not a proponent of abortion (I do not support it, but I am not as anti as most here), I am a HUGE proponent of being able to keep our born children alive and healthy. Our current system does a crappy job of addressing this. There are programs in place, but many of you consider them under the "entitlements" umbrella.

I do not claim to have any real answers, but it is not as black and white as both sides like to make it out to be.

 

[JimmyBob]

At 69, two pushups a day.

Damn, I got tired just reading this.

 

[CBradSmith]

Malarkey.

No worries for me though, the current system isn't sustainable. It'll be single payer eventually.

But srsly,

How is a conservative supposed to trust the next Leftist president not to "weaponize" the government?

Real question. I'll hang up and take your answer off the air.

 

[CBradSmith]

I am as "screw big brother" as anybody, but I always chuckle when I hear someone say how much they don't want the government controlling anything, but fully trust big business (in this case, insurance companies) to work with them. Some of you have witnessed far better from companies like that than I have. One wants power over you (bad), the other wants take take as much of your money as they can while giving you as little as possible (also bad).

The current system is a massive drain on the national GDP, but it does promote ingenuity and advancement of capabilities. I actually agree with syskatine. Eventually, a single-payer system will be the way we go. I do not care for most systems. I think Sweden's system is great for their lower population and low overall population density, but would not work here. I am still very interested in what we can do with a modified Switzerland system.

Many of you bitch and moan about abortions, yet ignore the fact that the US has among the highest neonatal mortality rates in industrialized nations. Though I am not a proponent of abortion (I do not support it, but I am not as anti as most here), I am a HUGE proponent of being able to keep our born children alive and healthy. Our current system does a crappy job of addressing this. There are programs in place, but many of you consider them under the "entitlements" umbrella.

I do not claim to have any real answers, but it is not as black and white as both sides like to make it out to be.

Theoretically a system could be designed to distribute a minimum viable product, a threshold coverage.

But how do you address political wrangling, executive lack of enforcement, carving out vulnerable groups (the old), etc?

 

[N. Pappagiorgio]

Saw this and wanted some opinions.

@Syskatine
@HighStickHarry
@AC2017
@windriverrange
@GunsOfFrankEaton
@MegaPoke
@Pokeabear
@N. Pappagiorgio
And all you others....

View embedded media

I don’t really have a lot to add but I would like to see rates come down through healthier lifestyles and higher deductibles and higher out of pocket expenses. Some kind of incentive for making good healthy choices and a penalty for having a 500 gram intake of carbs everyday. I’m very concerned about the government getting it right however.

 

[blbronco]

I would answer that, in part, to how well does it do that (vulnerable populations) now?

One of the reasons I am interested in the Swiss system, is that it has several parallels to our current system, while being a single payer system. It is not perfect, and unfortunately has a gap for the very poor population, and that needs to be shorn up. That is why I say a "modified" Swiss system.

As far as preventing political wrangling, in fairness, it is the left that is generally more generous in covering vulnerable populations. Look at the trends in funding for DHHS to see that. Still, neither "side" has done a great job of giving a damn about the entire population when considering overall health. How do you fix that? Not being ambiguous in the laws and codes. Can that happen? Probably not, but that is true regarding any system, including the current one.

 

[CBradSmith]

I would answer that, in part, to how well does it do that (vulnerable populations) now?

One of the reasons I am interested in the Swiss system, is that it has several parallels to our current system, while being a single payer system. It is not perfect, and unfortunately has a gap for the very poor population, and that needs to be shorn up. That is why I say a "modified" Swiss system.

As far as preventing political wrangling, in fairness, it is the left that is generally more generous in covering vulnerable populations. Look at the trends in funding for DHHS to see that. Still, neither "side" has done a great job of giving a damn about the entire population when considering overall health. How do you fix that? Not being ambiguous in the laws and codes. Can that happen? Probably not, but that is true regarding any system, including the current one.

Why go to single payer when some combination of private insurance and governmental coverage would provide a minimum threshold without sacrificing benefits of those that wish to pay more via employer plans?

 

[Soonersincefitty]

But srsly,

How is a conservative supposed to trust the next Leftist president not to "weaponize" the government?

Real question. I'll hang up and take your answer off the air.

Trust?

That's where you fell off the plank.

Do NOT, trust them.

See the Scorpion and the frog tale.
Perfect analogy.

 

[2012Bearcat]

I keep in shape, so I welcome incentives.

That aside, no, after this last round of government spying, targeting, setting people up, etc.....I don't suppose I'd trust a Pol further than I could throw them.

@Syskatine see what you've done with Obama and your sanctioning of all the things I listed above? How do we fix all the damage he's done? Don't give me "but Trump." Trump fibs on the reg to make you monkeys dance (and you do), but the sinister stuff the Obama Admin did...how is a citizen supposed to trust government to administer this or anything (new) really?

Oh how liberal of you. If you perceive something doesn't negatively effect you, it's acceptable to place restrictions on others.
I somehow have the feeling your opinion would change if the government decided in the future joint replacements were not covered because people worked out when all they really needed to do was watch what they ate and walk. The point being what government proposes today, changes down the road and becomes more restrictive.

 

[Ostatedchi]

The day the federal government forces me into a government run healthcare system is the day I run for Oklahoma Congress on the platform of secession.

 

[imprimis]

The day the federal government forces me into a government run healthcare system is the day I run for Oklahoma Congress on the platform of secession.

I'd vote for you---even from across your southern border. Maybe Texas could come along for a 2-fer. Maybe call the new nation, Texoma. Of course, that name is already in use.

 

[07pilt]

What function does the insurance company serve here?

 

[07pilt]

I don’t really have a lot to add but I would like to see rates come down through healthier lifestyles and higher deductibles and higher out of pocket expenses. Some kind of incentive for making good healthy choices and a penalty for having a 500 gram intake of carbs everyday. I’m very concerned about the government getting it right however.

The penalty for having a 500 gram intake of carbs everyday is that you get fat and feel like shit.

 

[Medic007]

The penalty for having a 500 gram intake of carbs everyday is that you get fat and feel like shit.

And diabetes, and heart disease, and renal disease , and renal failure, and heart failure, and peripheral vascular disease, and diabetic wound issues...

 

[07pilt]

And diabetes, and heart disease, and renal disease , and renal failure, and heart failure, and peripheral vascular disease, and diabetic wound issues...

cool

 

[Medic007]

cool

If morbid obesity was just "getting fat and feeling like shit," it wouldn't be such a resource and cost burden on the healthcare system.

 

[07pilt]

If morbid obesity was just "getting fat and feeling like shit," it wouldn't be such a resource and cost burden on the healthcare system.

awesome

 

[soonerinlOUisiana]

Saw this and wanted some opinions.

@Syskatine
@HighStickHarry
@AC2017
@windriverrange
@GunsOfFrankEaton
@MegaPoke
@Pokeabear
@N. Pappagiorgio
And all you others....

View embedded media

Hmmmmmm. Sounds like "social scoring" lite.

 

[Syskatine]

But srsly,

How is a conservative supposed to trust the next Leftist president not to "weaponize" the government?

Real question. I'll hang up and take your answer off the air.

I'm reduced to yelling at the clouds on this point. I've tried and tried to get a dialogue going and crickets. I've tried to get into it with @AC2017 and crickets. I've tried to get people to discuss their insurance coverage and outside of mega (that's its own thread, he's a microcosm of the current sitch) it's about fruitless.

 

[blbronco]

Why go to single payer when some combination of private insurance and governmental coverage would provide a minimum threshold without sacrificing benefits of those that wish to pay more via employer plans?

I am not against a hybridized system. I think if you earn more or if you place a greater value on healthcare, you should be able to get other and improved options. I don’t have confidence that we will ever have the leadership to make that happen.

 

[Headhunter]

Why not open the entire system up. Insurance providers can sell anywhere like car insurance.

The price of everything is posted and providers can advertise using prices in their ads like laser eye surgery. Allow rebates like car dealers if providers want to go that way.

Have a government subsidized plan that you can only use if you if your income is below a certain income level.

There are many free market ideas that haven't been utilized and probably never will but I don't know of any industries that competition doesn't benefit the buyer.

 

[Syskatine]

Why not open the entire system up. Insurance providers can sell anywhere like car insurance.

The price of everything is posted and providers can advertise using prices in their ads like laser eye surgery. Allow rebates like car dealers if providers want to go that way.

Have a government subsidized plan that you can only use if you if your income is below a certain income level.

There are many free market ideas that haven't been utilized and probably never will but I don't know of any industries that competition doesn't benefit the buyer.

Because they'll skim the young and healthy off that underwrites the sick and old. Whoever gets the good risk pool wins. Whoever is left with the bad risk pool loses. Ya'll are trying to make sure the unelected, dishonest, deliberately-confuse-the-consumer, already-protected-from-litigation, billion $$ industry gets the cream while the U.S. taxpayer gets the crap.

The issue is who gets the good risk pool: the taxpayer (who will use it to underwrite the bad risk pool) or insurance companies (who keep the profit from the good risk pool and pass the bad risk pool along to gubmint.)

 

[Headhunter]

Why not mandate that all insurers participate in a high risk plan in order to sell their other plans. The risk is spread out and the problem solved.

 

[07pilt]

What problem are we attempting to solve with these various rube Goldberg insurance machines?

 

[Syskatine]

Why not mandate that all insurers participate in a high risk plan in order to sell their other plans. The risk is spread out and the problem solved.

Because mandating insurance coverage is what Obamacare did and it's futile -- they'll just find a way to wire around it.

Gubmint gonna tell them what they can and cannot charge?

If private enterprise is so good, I say let Uncle Sam offer some coverage for "cost"-ish and then let private enterprise do their thing. Taxpayers can't compete, too? I say offer some basic coverage for the young and/or healthy and see what happens.

 

[Syskatine]

I will say.... conservatives are starting to get tired of this insurance racket too, at least it looks that way from this board.

Compare plans sometime. Sit down and look at the plans. Last time I tried it was dueling 17 page summaries of nomenclature and formulas even I could not understand. And I'm like, the best lawyer this side of the Blue river.

 

[CBradSmith]

I will say.... conservatives are starting to get tired of this insurance racket too, at least it looks that way from this board.

Compare plans sometime. Sit down and look at the plans. Last time I tried it was dueling 17 page summaries of nomenclature and formulas even I could not understand. And I'm like, the best lawyer this side of the Blue river.

 

[Syskatine]

What problem are we attempting to solve with these various rube Goldberg insurance machines?

That's the only consumers I can see that support this current system are people that aren't paying their own premiums.

 

[CBradSmith]

That's the only consumers I can see that support this current system are people that aren't paying their own premiums.

Oh but they are. You don't recognize it.