GoT
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anon_ph7vrsh7abnty
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Every time I see GOT as a post topic, it makes me think it says God of Thunder, because that's how it was always written on my set list.
Anyway...
Not much to add here but I dod have a question - when does the show start back up this season?
Anyway...
Not much to add here but I dod have a question - when does the show start back up this season?
I think you were making a joke, but not sure. I'm trying to remember if an "important" character dies, other than the ones who have already died. I guess it depends on your definition of important. I guess it also depends on your definition of "dies", but the character I am referring to won't get to that point in his story until at least the following season, I wouldn't think.
Maybe I am forgetting someone, but I don't remember the death of any key characters between the death of Tywin Lannister/The Red Viper and the end of Book 5.
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anon_ph7vrsh7abnty
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It was a joke, but you are certainly doing your best to throw a wet blanket on it.
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This doesn't have anything to do with the upcoming season, but the final two episodes from last season (The Watchers on the Wall and The Children) will be broadcast at IMAX movie theaters for a one week run in the next week or so.
Way behind on this series. Just watched the red wedding episode, and....god damn it.
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Just started the whole series about a week and a half ago though. I'll be happy when I finish season 4 as I haven't gotten anything productive done in that time.
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I agree. I was more upset about the Ned beheading. Haven't read the books yet, don't know if it would be worth it since I've already watched the shows.
If you like to read, I would recommend it. The books are so much better than the show, IMO. There are also quite a few differences that you will find interesting.
It is an apples to oranges comparison really. There are things the show can do so well that the books will never be able to and visa versa. I like them both a lot for different reason. I enjoy the world building aspects a lot and that is something the show will never be able to do. However, if that stuff doesn't appeal to you the show offers a pretty good concise version of the books.
Don't think the second wedding is available until February 17. Unless it's still on someone's dvr.
You are correct, I've been streaming through amazon prime but season 4 isn't available yet.... Which sucks
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Two biggest things I think should determine whether or not you read the books after having seen the show...
The books are thick. If that's intimidating to you then maybe it's not for you.
There's a lot that goes on in this series that the show just can't give you. I think chief among these is what the characters are actually thinking. I my opinion that adds a ton to the story.
The books are thick. If that's intimidating to you then maybe it's not for you.
There's a lot that goes on in this series that the show just can't give you. I think chief among these is what the characters are actually thinking. I my opinion that adds a ton to the story.
Ned loses his head vs Red Wedding
The thing is, if you're getting to it in the books first, Robb hasn't ever been a the central character in a chapter. We never see the world from his perspective, and other than Rickon he's the only Stark child that's true for. Ned, on the other hand, appeared to be the series' main character right up until the moment he died.
The thing is, if you're getting to it in the books first, Robb hasn't ever been a the central character in a chapter. We never see the world from his perspective, and other than Rickon he's the only Stark child that's true for. Ned, on the other hand, appeared to be the series' main character right up until the moment he died.
I agree with your points, but wanted to add something to the discussion.
From my perspective, I think the Ned beheading was more impactful than TRW for a couple of reasons.
The beheading was a game changer. Whether you were reading the book first, or watching the show first, that was the point where it hit you that this book/show was different from most anything you have read/seen. The main protagonist was just killed, and it happened very early in the story. You were expecting some kind of last minute intervention to save him (because that is what would happen in other books/movies/shows), but it never came.
TRW was very similar, but different for a few reasons. First off, we had already experienced it with Ned, so it wasn't as much of a shock. Secondly, there were hints as to what was coming. Lord Frey seemed to take Robb's slight far too well. His sons were acting suspiciously. There was just enough there that you knew something bad was going to happen.
I read the books after the show. My take as someone who saw these events on TV first:
The Red Wedding impacted me a lot more. The Ned stuff was like okay ... this series is crazy anything goes. The Red Wedding was almost soul crushing and made me realize Martin was there to crush dreams, souls and any optimism. After the Red Wedding episode I literally just starred at the TV for like 5 minutes and wondered if I even wanted to continue with the series.
The Red Wedding impacted me a lot more. The Ned stuff was like okay ... this series is crazy anything goes. The Red Wedding was almost soul crushing and made me realize Martin was there to crush dreams, souls and any optimism. After the Red Wedding episode I literally just starred at the TV for like 5 minutes and wondered if I even wanted to continue with the series.
I almost quit reading the books when the TRW happened. When Ned died I was very upset but still had hope for the Starks with TRW that hope was crushed. Now the death of a certain character brought me back in and brought a little happiness back. I also wasn't a huge Rob fan other then he was a Stark. I was a huge Ned fan though.
Air - Yeah, the show gives Robb more screen time, so to speak. I think they wanted us to view Robb as the great hope for Stark retribution. In the books we see him mostly through the eyes of Bran or Cat. We see him as their hope, but not necessarily the only hope. A lot of the clues the books give us as to the importance of other characters aren't in the show either, which makes Robb seem even more important.
The book reader knows Ned's final days are filled with thoughts of his sister. When he thinks of his children he doesn't deserve much special thought specifically for his heir, but he does for not telling John about his mother.
The book reader knows Ned's final days are filled with thoughts of his sister. When he thinks of his children he doesn't deserve much special thought specifically for his heir, but he does for not telling John about his mother.
I can totally see that.
The level of brutality is so much higher for TRW than for Ned's beheading. They don't even show the sword actually make contact with Ned's neck, or show his head rolling on the ground. At TRW, Robb gets shot with a crossbow 4 or 5 times. Caitlin slashes the throat of Frey's wife, then gets her throat slashed. Robb's pregnant wife gets stabbed repeatedly in the stomach. It is all extremely brutal and shocking, and leaves you somewhat overwhelmed with/devoid of emotion.
I had read TRW before seeing it on TV, and still came away with that feeling of shock/depression/outrage.
The death of three women in the TV show does kind of up the ante as well... In the book it's just Cat becaise Robb's wife (who is a different character altogether and not at all pregnant) isn't there and Cat slays one of Frey's sons instead of his wife.
I think the bigger shock to me in the book was the near complete anihlation of the military power in the North than the actual violence of the scene, and that's not what stood out to me in the show.
So in the book what stood out was how much the event affected the plot in the future (if the North's army, Edmure Tulley and the greater part of Northern nobility escape there are still four Stark children and John to carry on in Robb's place for instance). There is also the aspect of how close so many plot elements are to resolution if things go well at the wedding... Robb can take his army to join the greater war and Sandor Clegane is literally on the verge of returning Arya Stark to her family... In the show what stands out is the sheer brutality of the event.
I think the bigger shock to me in the book was the near complete anihlation of the military power in the North than the actual violence of the scene, and that's not what stood out to me in the show.
So in the book what stood out was how much the event affected the plot in the future (if the North's army, Edmure Tulley and the greater part of Northern nobility escape there are still four Stark children and John to carry on in Robb's place for instance). There is also the aspect of how close so many plot elements are to resolution if things go well at the wedding... Robb can take his army to join the greater war and Sandor Clegane is literally on the verge of returning Arya Stark to her family... In the show what stands out is the sheer brutality of the event.
On the book side it's official winter won't be coming until at least 2016 which means the TV show wraps up for sure before the last book which at best would be about 2018 but more likely based on GRRM writing pace for the past two will be around 2021 or later. It's 50/50 either me on GRRM is going to be dead before he finishes.
Went to the late showing of the IMAXed last two episode last night. Even though I could have watch them on HBO go for free it was worth the $15 to me. As we discussed before the CGI of the battle of the wall is incredible. Whole new level on the big screen. Season five trailer is interesting although not that informative. I sure everyone's seen it online by now.
Went to the late showing of the IMAXed last two episode last night. Even though I could have watch them on HBO go for free it was worth the $15 to me. As we discussed before the CGI of the battle of the wall is incredible. Whole new level on the big screen. Season five trailer is interesting although not that informative. I sure everyone's seen it online by now.
FM
No guarantee that WoW won't be out in 2015. The publisher stated that it is not on the schedule for this year, but DwD was released 4 months after completion. If GRRM finishes it between now and July, the publisher will get it on their schedule and make it happen. Personally, I don't think GRRM could be too far from finishing the writing portion.
No guarantee that WoW won't be out in 2015. The publisher stated that it is not on the schedule for this year, but DwD was released 4 months after completion. If GRRM finishes it between now and July, the publisher will get it on their schedule and make it happen. Personally, I don't think GRRM could be too far from finishing the writing portion.
I'm just optimistically speculating. Here is my line of thinking.
-He has admitted that he had to cut 4 (possibly more) chapters out of DWD due to the book being too thick for binding. Those chapters were bumped to this book, and focused on the Battle for Winterfell and Battle for Mereen. He has dropped hints that they may have also included the Battle for Storm's End (involving Jon Connington).
-He has already released about 12 chapters of WoW to whet the appetites of his readers. I have not read all of them, but I think that only 1 of them (a Theon chapter) would fall under the group of chapters cut from DWD, assuming he is being honest about what was cut out.
-I figure that, as we get closer to the end of the series, the writing should become somewhat easier. He knows where the main characters are going to end up and is becoming limited as to options for getting them to those points from where they were at the end of book 5. He doesn't have to think as much about each character's story and how he can make their story interesting, because it has to tie in to the endgame. For example, he knows that Arya needs to get back to Westeros (most likely) before the series ends. Therefore, he isn't free to allow her to have too many more adventures in the free cities.
-He is constantly under pressure from fans, and from HBO beating him to the punch, and may be inclined to work a bit faster than he has in the past. July of 2015 will mark 4 years since DWD was released. None of his novels have been published with more than 6 years between them. The average is 3 years. The average between 3-4 and 4-5 was 5.5 years.
With all that said, there are 2 caveats that worry me.
1). GRRM is a jackass and seems to become more cantankerous the more he is criticized. I could see him taking 7 years between books just because the criticism pisses him off.
2). It seems pretty clear that HBO will finish the story before him at this point. Therefore, he may feel the need to re-write the endgame in order to keep book sales high. If he doesn't know how the story ends, and the original planned ending is off the table, writing the last 2 (or 3) books would likely be more difficult, rather than easier.
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