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GOT 5/8

Been Jammin

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Jun 27, 2003
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I'm not going to get into the Tower of Joy since there is already another thread about it. But....

How about the return of Osha and Rickon? That totally caught me by surprise. If I remember correctly, in the show, when Winterfell's Maester was about to die, he told Bran and Rickon to split up and told Osha to take Rickon to the Umbers. I was a bit bummed to see that Shaggy Dog was killed off, but I guess that prevents HBO from needing to add CGI costs. At first, I thought maybe the Umbers were using Rickon to gain the trust of Ramsay with plans to turn against him when the time is right. But, HBO hasn't really spent a lot of time on the alliance between the Boltons and Freys (who either captured or killed GreatJohn Umber at the RW), so I think that is less likely. I am thinking that the Umbers really did decide to ally themselves with the Boltons/Karstarks. Rickon will take Mance Rayder's place as the bait that leads to Jon bringing a wildling army to Winterfell.

I wasn't quite sure what to make of the scene between Tommen and the High Septon. I guess the whole point was to make Tommen more pious to make him more likely to go along with the church's process for judging of both Cersei and Marjory.

I found the Tyrion/Varas scenes to be a bit silly. That was a lot of time invested in the two of them finding out information that they should have already known. Of course the other nearby slavers are invested in eliminating Dani from the picture since she has made it her mission to smash the slave trade in Slavers Bay.

The Dani scene was fine. Nothing surprising there. Based on previews for next week, it looks like Mormont is going to liberate her from Vaes Dothrak and win his way back into her good graces.

Nothing surprising in the Sam scene.

The Arya scene was a bit confusing to me. I thought it was counter intuitive to have the Waif/Jaqen wanting Arya to constantly profess that she is "No One" while also making sure that she remembers every detail of Arya Stark's life. It seems like they would have wanted her to give answers like..."I don't know anyone named Arya Stark". "How should I know how many sisters/brothers she has?". "I know nothing of the list that you are asking about".

At the wall.... Jon's watch has ended. I'm interested to see what happens next. Does Sansa show up at Castle Black? If so, is he still there? I thought it was interesting that he turned over command of the Watch to Ed. At first I was thinking that the next Lord Commander would need to be elected, but maybe not. No Lord Commander has ever died and been brought back to life before, so maybe he is in position to be able to pick his successor. More likely, I guess he could put Ed in command until they have a chance to go through the election process and pick their leader.
 
I'm not 100% convinced that was a direwolf head. I still think it could be a pared down version of the Grand Northern Conspiracy. Osha kept giving Rickon some funny looks. It didn't seem 100% right. I also have no clue why the Smalljon would throw in with the Boltons. On the other hand, I can't see any real value of handing Rickon over to Ramsey if you planned a coup (other than there finally being a Stark in Winterfell).

Either way I thought the Smalljon was fantastic.
 
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I think the point of the Arya bit was to get Arya to A. Be honest with them finally. and B. Start Looking at Arya as a separate, now gone person. Instead of repeatedly saying "A girl has no name" she told Arya's story in the 3rd person, helping her to seperate her new persona from her old. I actually thought that bit was really well done.

They aren't trying to get her to forget she was ever Arya, they are trying to get her to stop being Arya. Its like a butterfly and a caterpillar. The butterfly doesn't forget it was once a caterpillar, but it must realize it is no longer one.
 
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Man I will be super bummed if Rickon's end game is having his wolf killed and turned over to Ramsey. I thought last night episode was setting up for the next one. I found it a little slow but some of that could just be because it was following the return of Jon.
 
I think the point of the Arya bit was one was to get Arya to A. Be honest with them finally. and B. Start Looking at Arya as a separate, now gone person. Instead of repeatedly saying "A girl has no name" she told Arya's story in the 3rd person, helping her to seperate her new persona from her old. I actually thought that bit was really well done.

They aren't trying to get her to forget she was ever Arya, they are trying to get her to stop being Arya. Its like a butterfly and a caterpillar. The butterfly doesn't forget it was once a caterpillar, but it must realize it is no longer one.

I can kind of see what you are saying. Kind of. But, would you say that Arya has really bought in? Or, did she fool them and she is using them to learn what she needs to learn to get back to Westeros and go on a vengeance spree? We all know that she hid Needle and will likely be going back for it at some point. So, she either put one over on them, or, something will happen to re-awaken her Arya identity at a later time.
 
Man I will be super bummed if Rickon's end game is having his wolf killed and turned over to Ramsey. I thought last night episode was setting up for the next one. I found it a little slow but some of that could just be because it was following the return of Jon.

It was definitely an episode setting up some upcoming events. I still enjoyed it, however.
 
It was definitely an episode setting up some upcoming events. I still enjoyed it, however.
I love them all no matter what honestly. I even watched a little during the Thunder game. I just had to see that Tower of Joy scene and see how much they reviled.
 
I'm not 100% convinced that was a direwolf head. I still think it could be a pared down version of the Grand Northern Conspiracy. Osha kept giving Rickon some funny looks. It didn't seem 100% right. I also have no clue why the Smalljon would throw in with the Boltons. On the other hand, I can't see any real value of handing Rickon over to Ramsey if you planned a coup (other than there finally being a Stark in Winterfell).

Either way I thought the Smalljon was fantastic.

Agree on the Smalljon.

I have no doubt that was a direwolf head. I don't think HBO wants to do any more CGI than they have to do.

As far as the Umbers throwing in with the Boltons, HBO has made a lot of the storyline about what a huge transgression it was for Jon to allow a huge number of Wildlings south of the wall. I think it is believable that the Umbers (who do live very close to the Wall) would freak out and decide that ally themselves with the only existing military power in the north, so they could all head toward the Wall and slaughter all of the Wildlings.

I could also see this being HBO's version of the Great Northern Conspiracy. But, it would be laughably risky to turn Rickon over to Ramsay knowing his reputation.
 
I can kind of see what you are saying. Kind of. But, would you say that Arya has really bought in? Or, did she fool them and she is using them to learn what she needs to learn to get back to Westeros and go on a vengeance spree? We all know that she hid Needle and will likely be going back for it at some point. So, she either put one over on them, or, something will happen to re-awaken her Arya identity at a later time.

No clue really. I think she's buying in, and I don't think she ends up in a revenge spree. Who's left? Cercie, Frey and the mountain? I think her and the faceless men's goals end up aligning and she plays a larger role in the story than just revenge. They aren't just sitting back as neutral parties in this. They have their hands pretty deep in it for some reason.
 
I could also see this being HBO's version of the Great Northern Conspiracy. But, it would be laughably risky to turn Rickon over to Ramsay knowing his reputation.

I agree 100% with that. However, it was incredibly dumb for Littlefinger to turn Sansa over to the Boltons and he did it. I'm honestly not looking forward to more of Ramsay torturing the crap out of someone for a season. Hopefully it doesn't turn into that.

To me the head looked pretty small for a direwolf but then again the shot was brief. Good point about the CGI though. The less Direwolves the better for HBO.
 
No clue really. I think she's buying in, and I don't think she ends up in a revenge spree. Who's left? Cercie, Frey and the mountain? I think her and the faceless men's goals end up aligning and she plays a larger role in the story than just revenge. They aren't just sitting back as neutral parties in this. They have their hands pretty deep in it for some reason.

I guess there aren't that many on HBO Arya's list. I think GRRM's Arya still has 6-7 names on her list plus other names she could add (i.e., I don't think any Freys are on her list). But, HBO could make her their version of Lady Stoneheart. In other words, they could have her cruising around Westeros eliminating various nameless Freys who played a part in the Red Wedding.

I find your theory about the Faceless Men to be interesting. In the books, it is pretty clear that they (or at least some of them) have a hidden agenda. HBO hasn't really told us anything other than that they mostly hang out in their temple in Bravos and help people when they are looking for Dr. Kavorkian. We know they can change their faces and go out to assassinate people who deserve to die. But, we have seen no evidence that they have any interest in politics, commerce, etc.

I'm not saying your theory is wrong. But if it is right, it is going to turn out to be a very long con.
 
Agree on the Smalljon.

I have no doubt that was a direwolf head. I don't think HBO wants to do any more CGI than they have to do.

As far as the Umbers throwing in with the Boltons, HBO has made a lot of the storyline about what a huge transgression it was for Jon to allow a huge number of Wildlings south of the wall. I think it is believable that the Umbers (who do live very close to the Wall) would freak out and decide that ally themselves with the only existing military power in the north, so they could all head toward the Wall and slaughter all of the Wildlings.

I could also see this being HBO's version of the Great Northern Conspiracy. But, it would be laughably risky to turn Rickon over to Ramsay knowing his reputation.

I just want to see Small Jon and Tormund together. The quotes will be great. It wouldn't surprise me at all if they hadn't already met since the Umbers are so far north.

Osha as the ghost of Winterfell makes 100x more sense than Sansa
 
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With all this importance on Arya letting go of her previous existence, I have a terrible feeling she is going to be tasked with killing Jon at some point. If that happens and one actually kills the other, that would break my heart. I think it would be more likely Jon would deprogram her, but this is GRRM after all.
 
I guess there aren't that many on HBO Arya's list. I think GRRM's Arya still has 6-7 names on her list plus other names she could add (i.e., I don't think any Freys are on her list). But, HBO could make her their version of Lady Stoneheart. In other words, they could have her cruising around Westeros eliminating various nameless Freys who played a part in the Red Wedding.

I find your theory about the Faceless Men to be interesting. In the books, it is pretty clear that they (or at least some of them) have a hidden agenda. HBO hasn't really told us anything other than that they mostly hang out in their temple in Bravos and help people when they are looking for Dr. Kavorkian. We know they can change their faces and go out to assassinate people who deserve to die. But, we have seen no evidence that they have any interest in politics, commerce, etc.

I'm not saying your theory is wrong. But if it is right, it is going to turn out to be a very long con.


Yeah, we'll find out when Sam gets to the Citadel if Hbo's faceless men are in as deep as the books'. I still want to know what Jaqen was doing in Westerose in the first place, and if he meant to get caught.
 
With all this importance on Arya letting go of her previous existence, I have a terrible feeling she is going to be tasked with killing Jon at some point. If that happens and one actually kills the other, that would break my heart. I think it would be more likely Jon would deprogram her, but this is GRRM after all.

Yeah I posted a similar worry last week. Either she truely becomes faceless and is tasked to kill someone she wouldn't want to, or she defies the faceless men and they get revenge on her later. Or maybe as I said above their goals align and she gets to help her family.
 
I think part of me is hoping the Umbers are planning something because how much more can they really put the Starks through? I know it is Martin so I don't expect everything to turn out roses for them but at some point one of the Starks has to start seeing some positive momentum.
 
I think part of me is hoping the Umbers are planning something because how much more can they really put the Starks through? I know it is Martin so I don't expect everything to turn out roses for them but at some point one of the Starks has to start seeing some positive momentum.
If Shaggy Dog is indeed dead and Rickon has been handed over by the Umbers to that evil prick Ramsey then I might finally just cheer for the White Walkers to kill them all. They let that twerp rape Sansa now they hand over the wild boy to him. Lame on HBO's part and IMO they are trying to GRRM a GRRM product.
 
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