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GOT 5/29

Been Jammin

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Jun 27, 2003
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I thought it was another strong, enjoyable episode. Mostly set up for upcoming action, but very entertaining.

-Benjen returns! This is something I have been looking forward to in the books and show. I would say that HBO is trying to make him Coldhands without calling him that. Benjen tells Bran that he is a servant of the 3-eyed Raven, and that is exactly what Coldhands is. I have never liked the theory that Benjen is Coldhands, but with the explanation that Benjen gave Bran last night, it would explain a lot (why is Coldhands not human yet not wight either?, Why does he keep his face covered? Where has Benjen disappeared to?) In any case, I am happy to finally see more of Benjen and curious if he knows the details of Jon's parentage. I think @JonnyVito's theory that Bran will make it through to the south side of the wall and lead to the WW breaching it makes a lot of sense. That seems to be where Benjen will take them. I wonder if he will be able to go south of the wall (supposedly Coldhands can not).

-As an aside, I thought it was cool to see The Mad King in Bran's visions.

-"No One" is gone and Arya is back. I am not sure where that story is going, other than to say that Arya is going to stick the Waif with the pointy end. The easy answer is that it will be the final straw that gets her kicked out of the Faceless Men training and causes her to head back to Westeros. But, if that is what happens, what was the point of her ending up there in the first place? Maybe killing the Waif is what Jaquen wants her to do. Maybe after she does it, he will teach her how to change her face before sending her to Westeros on a mission? I'm not sure how it all shakes out, but it sure seems anti-climactic for her to end up back in Westeros looking for revenge against those who wronged the Starks (unless she is a super ninja assassin).

-A lot about Sam's story surprised me. I was sure that Gilly and the baby would end up staying at Horn Hill, allowing him to do his Maester training without distraction. Now, I am not sure he will do it at all. What is the point of snagging a Valyrian steel sword if he is not headed for a showdown with the WW? Also, it seems unlikely that he would be able to take the sword to the Citadel and just hang out and train without his dad showing up and taking it back. In the books, we have just started to be exposed to the events occurring at the Citadel, and it appears that they will be significant and somewhat convoluted. Perhaps HBO decided they didn't want to go there, and opted to have Sam steal the sword and run back to the Wall.

-How awesome is the actor who plays Walder Frey? As much as I am ready to see him get what's coming to him, I hope we see more of him in upcoming episodes. HBO caught me by surprise by taking their story all the way back to events that occurred in Book 4. They are about to give us Jaime trying to get control of Riverrun while the Frey's attempt to get the Blackfish to surrender the castle by threatening to hand Edmure. That is Book 4 content, and a big part of it is showing the reader another side of Jaime. HBO has made him out to be mostly a tough asshole who is infatuated with Cersei and as despicable as she is. GRRM has turned him into more of a character that the reader roots for. In the books, he has become pretty disgusted with Cersei and has become more of a smart compromiser than warrior. Maybe we will see more of that side of him turn up in the show. Brienne is also headed for Riverrun so the 2 of them are likely headed for a reunion. I think it is worth pointing out that in the books, their reunion appears to be about to lead to Jaime having a face to face with Lady Stoneheart, and Walder Frey did mention the Brotherhood Without Banners last night...Hmmm.....

-I liked the developments in KL. The High Sparrow is turning out to be way smarter and more powerful than I thought he would be. I was surprised that Tommen kicked Jaime out of the KG. That did not happen in the books. Interestingly, that frees him from his oath and allows him to marry and to become the Lord of Casterly Rock. Not sure if that will be important or not down the line. I, also, think it is interesting that HBO is not even bothering with pretending like Sir Strong is anyone other than The Mountain.

-One issue I had with the episode was Dani's speech at the end. I'm a bit tired of her making dramatic speeches. I do wonder if she is going to turn out to be the hero I thought she was going to be. Maybe she will turn out to be more like her father (insane killer) than benevolent savior.

-Looks like next week, we will be checking in on the Ironborn and seeing what Sansa/Jon are up to (among other things).
 
Last nights episode was baller! I am going to watch it again before doing any break downs but you did an excellent job BeenJammin. I also agree Benji has to be coldhands. I think Arrya is a goner if she was anyone other then a Stark then I would say maybe she has a chance.
 
Interesting theme of this season seems to be everyone is breaking free of their duties / oaths to get in position for the final showdown. Jon obviously out of the Nights Watch, now Sam may of done the same, Jamie now out of the Kings guard and Arya out of the faceless man. Even Benjon whom we haven't see or heard from since season one is conveniently out of the Nights Watch.

Definitely surprises by the way the Sam's story turned. Agree HBO may be skipping the whole Citadel storyline.

Interesting that Dani is told she needs 1,000 ships just as Theon and Yara are heading her way with the stolen ships. Hopefully this will get her ass to Westros.

Lots of big armies suddently coming into play. Jon now has the wildings and potentially the Vaile and the Tully's if Blackfish breaks out. Dani now has the Dothraki, the former slaves and the seventh sons. Tommen / Jamie have whats left of the Lanester army reinforced by the Tyrells and the Freys. Ramsey now has his Dad's forces and of course the white walkers are headed south. That's doesn't even account for Dorne and our new king of the Iron Islands. It's about to get bloody.

It is fun to be beyond the books.Did not see the Tommon find religion and get's his hot women back twist coming. For a horny 14 (?) year old that a dangerious combination and a hard one for mommy to compete with.
 
Last nights episode was baller! I am going to watch it again before doing any break downs but you did an excellent job BeenJammin. I also agree Benji has to be coldhands. I think Arrya is a goner if she was anyone other then a Stark then I would say maybe she has a chance.

To clarify. In the show, Benjen is just Benjen. I don't think we will hear the name Coldhands. I'm still not totally convinced they are one and the same in the books, but it seems much more likely now
 
Interesting theme of this season seems to be everyone is breaking free of their duties / oaths to get in position for the final showdown. Jon obviously out of the Nights Watch, now Sam may of done the same, Jamie now out of the Kings guard and Arya out of the faceless man. Even Benjon whom we haven't see or heard from since season one is conveniently out of the Nights Watch.

I have a hard time seeing Benjen and Sam ignoring their oaths. It would seem counter intuitive to have Jon die to get him released from his oath and then have the other two just decide to blow it off. I guess it is arguable that Benjen died but it does not sound like he fully did. Of course, the NW may not exist before too long....problem solved.

Interesting that Dani is told she needs 1,000 ships just as Theon and Yara are heading her way with the stolen ships. Hopefully this will get her ass to Westros.

From the previews, it looks like Theon and Yara are going to try to retake the Iron Islands next . Of course, the conversation might have been only the tail end. Maybe the sentence was "first we get us some Dragons and an army, then we retake the I Islands"
 
Is she actually brainwashed by the cult? A week ago she was clearly not.
I'm guessing, not. It seems to me that the High Sparrow, Jamie, Olenna, and Mace all think that the High Sparrow won by turning Tommen and Margaery into devoted followers of the faith. While I think that's true for Tommen, I think Margaery is just playing the part for the time being. I have a feeling that Margaery will somehow use her "faith" to direct Tommen's actions in the future.
 
I'm guessing, not. It seems to me that the High Sparrow, Jamie, Olenna, and Mace all think that the High Sparrow won by turning Tommen and Margaery into devoted followers of the faith. While I think that's true for Tommen, I think Margaery is just playing the part for the time being. I have a feeling that Margaery will somehow use her "faith" to direct Tommen's actions in the future.

Agreed. She may end up being one of the smartest, most powerful characters in the show.
 
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Also agree on Marjory, she just figured out how to get herself out of jail without the walk, keeps the common people on her and Tommens side, and drives Tommen further away from his family.
 
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I thought it was another strong, enjoyable episode. Mostly set up for upcoming action, but very entertaining.

-Benjen returns! This is something I have been looking forward to in the books and show. I would say that HBO is trying to make him Coldhands without calling him that. Benjen tells Bran that he is a servant of the 3-eyed Raven, and that is exactly what Coldhands is. I have never liked the theory that Benjen is Coldhands, but with the explanation that Benjen gave Bran last night, it would explain a lot (why is Coldhands not human yet not wight either?, Why does he keep his face covered? Where has Benjen disappeared to?) In any case, I am happy to finally see more of Benjen and curious if he knows the details of Jon's parentage. I think @JonnyVito's theory that Bran will make it through to the south side of the wall and lead to the WW breaching it makes a lot of sense. That seems to be where Benjen will take them. I wonder if he will be able to go south of the wall (supposedly Coldhands can not).

-As an aside, I thought it was cool to see The Mad King in Bran's visions.

-"No One" is gone and Arya is back. I am not sure where that story is going, other than to say that Arya is going to stick the Waif with the pointy end. The easy answer is that it will be the final straw that gets her kicked out of the Faceless Men training and causes her to head back to Westeros. But, if that is what happens, what was the point of her ending up there in the first place? Maybe killing the Waif is what Jaquen wants her to do. Maybe after she does it, he will teach her how to change her face before sending her to Westeros on a mission? I'm not sure how it all shakes out, but it sure seems anti-climactic for her to end up back in Westeros looking for revenge against those who wronged the Starks (unless she is a super ninja assassin).

-A lot about Sam's story surprised me. I was sure that Gilly and the baby would end up staying at Horn Hill, allowing him to do his Maester training without distraction. Now, I am not sure he will do it at all. What is the point of snagging a Valyrian steel sword if he is not headed for a showdown with the WW? Also, it seems unlikely that he would be able to take the sword to the Citadel and just hang out and train without his dad showing up and taking it back. In the books, we have just started to be exposed to the events occurring at the Citadel, and it appears that they will be significant and somewhat convoluted. Perhaps HBO decided they didn't want to go there, and opted to have Sam steal the sword and run back to the Wall.

-How awesome is the actor who plays Walder Frey? As much as I am ready to see him get what's coming to him, I hope we see more of him in upcoming episodes. HBO caught me by surprise by taking their story all the way back to events that occurred in Book 4. They are about to give us Jaime trying to get control of Riverrun while the Frey's attempt to get the Blackfish to surrender the castle by threatening to hand Edmure. That is Book 4 content, and a big part of it is showing the reader another side of Jaime. HBO has made him out to be mostly a tough asshole who is infatuated with Cersei and as despicable as she is. GRRM has turned him into more of a character that the reader roots for. In the books, he has become pretty disgusted with Cersei and has become more of a smart compromiser than warrior. Maybe we will see more of that side of him turn up in the show. Brienne is also headed for Riverrun so the 2 of them are likely headed for a reunion. I think it is worth pointing out that in the books, their reunion appears to be about to lead to Jaime having a face to face with Lady Stoneheart, and Walder Frey did mention the Brotherhood Without Banners last night...Hmmm.....

-I liked the developments in KL. The High Sparrow is turning out to be way smarter and more powerful than I thought he would be. I was surprised that Tommen kicked Jaime out of the KG. That did not happen in the books. Interestingly, that frees him from his oath and allows him to marry and to become the Lord of Casterly Rock. Not sure if that will be important or not down the line. I, also, think it is interesting that HBO is not even bothering with pretending like Sir Strong is anyone other than The Mountain.

-One issue I had with the episode was Dani's speech at the end. I'm a bit tired of her making dramatic speeches. I do wonder if she is going to turn out to be the hero I thought she was going to be. Maybe she will turn out to be more like her father (insane killer) than benevolent savior.

-Looks like next week, we will be checking in on the Ironborn and seeing what Sansa/Jon are up to (among other things).
I just can't see things turning out well for Arya after having defied Jaqen again. He tells her clearly in a previous episode that killing the actress was her last chance. Even if she does manage to kill the Waif, you'd think her days are numbered. You don't outrun or outwit the Faceless Men.
 
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Worst of season IMO. Very predictable. Benjen, Arrya, Tommen, Jaime, Dari, could have known all that without an hour to watch. A whole section to explain how Sam got the sword.

Not awful by any means, just not impressive.
 
I just can't see things turning out well for Arya after having defied Jaqen again. He tells her clearly in a previous episode that killing the actress was her last chance. Even if she does manage to kill the Waif, you'd think her days are numbered. You don't outrun or outwit the Faceless Men.

You actually bring up a good point. Maybe her story is being on the run from the Faceless Men and being unable to trust anyone she meets. That would make sense and be interesting .
 
Also found it apparent that the dragon fire is going to come into use against the WW, which means Tyrion will likely play a part.
 
That a combination of dragon fire and dragons will defeat the white walkers seems the obviously conclusion. The only question would seem to be before or after she takes the throne. After killing the white walkers and saving Westros defeating the Lannisters would seem very anti-climatic.

I believe the Ayra will eventually hook back up with Jon. I have no basis for that believe, there just seems to be a Ayra / Jon connection that we were always leading back to
 
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Margaery is now clearly running the show in King's Landing. And I hated Joffrey like everyone else, but Tommen is quite the big wussy. At least with Joffrey, someone would've died out of this whole mess. That whole scene in King's Landing was anti-climatic. All that build up and no money shot.

The rest of the episode seemed to be for the sole purpose of advancing all the storylines, which is ok.
 
I was really Hoping Arya would become a bad ass assasin before she left. Like someone else said, the whole faceless men plot was a bit pointless as she really didn't learn a great deal other than how to be more observant. I bet the books take her further along in her training. Bit of a trend now on the show, Bran and Arya spend a lot of time with wise masters of their craft, but don't really learn much (that we get to see anyway).
 
@Been Jammin

Hey I found this in a GOT article and thought you might be interested. I think you are right after reading this and HBO again combined two characters for casting reasons and to save a few bucks.

The twist is that George R.R. Martin seems to have denied this theory in his books, at least privately. Back in January 2015, a Reddit user on the “Song of Ice and Fire” subreddit mentioned that he took a visit to Texas A&M University to look at the manuscript for Martin’s most recent book, “A Dance With Dragons.” In the margins, Martin’s editor asked if Coldhands was Benjen, to which Martin simply replied in red ink, “NO.”
 
@Been Jammin

Hey I found this in a GOT article and thought you might be interested. I think you are right after reading this and HBO again combined two characters for casting reasons and to save a few bucks.

The twist is that George R.R. Martin seems to have denied this theory in his books, at least privately. Back in January 2015, a Reddit user on the “Song of Ice and Fire” subreddit mentioned that he took a visit to Texas A&M University to look at the manuscript for Martin’s most recent book, “A Dance With Dragons.” In the margins, Martin’s editor asked if Coldhands was Benjen, to which Martin simply replied in red ink, “NO.”

Thanks. I had read that before. The other reason I don't think they are one and the same (in the books) is the following. At some point, Bran is discussing Coldhands with one of The Children of the Forest. She says something about him be very very old. Now, maybe he is being controlled by the 3 eyed Raven, and that is what she meant, but I don't think she would have said that about Benjen.
 
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Also sounds like the Dani scene won't be in the books either as Martin has said she isn't able to withstand fire like that. I am 100% positive thought that she is Azor Ahai and she was reborn in the fire when the dragons were made and that was she lived through that.
 
One more thing what if the mad king saying "Burn them All" is not in fact him going crazy and wanting all of King's Landing to burn but him having visions of the White Walkers and he is saying "burn them All" as in the White walkers and the undead army. I bet wildfire is going to be a key part in defeating the White Walkers. Of course Dani will win Westeros first before this becomes a problem.
 
One more thing what if the mad king saying "Burn them All" is not in fact him going crazy and wanting all of King's Landing to burn but him having visions of the White Walkers and he is saying "burn them All" as in the White walkers and the undead army. .

I call BS on that theory. His King's Hand was the top Pyromancer and we already know he hid caches of wildfire in various places beneath KL. Jaime's entire character arc relies on Arys being a madman who would have destroyed thousands of innocent people if Jaime had not killed him.
 
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I call BS on that theory. His King's Hand was the top Pyromancer and we already know he hid caches of wildfire in various places beneath KL. Jaime's entire character arc relies on Arys being a madman who would have destroyed thousands of innocent people if Jaime had not killed him.

I tend to agree with you on the fact he was just crazy and Bran flashing back to this scene with him and Jamie is more about Bran seeing Jamie other then the guy who took his legs IMO. Now the wildfire I still think it and the dragons are what save Westeros.

I did read one weird thing today also. So in the books Dani can remember a lemon tree but claims she grew up in Braavos but Braavos can't grow lemon trees due to the climate(?). Martin has stated this was no over sight so it must be a clue of some sort. Is there anywhere that grows lemons?
 
Well Martin told everyone this week that in fact Brienne is related to Dunk. Shocker!!
 
George R.R. Martin Has Revealed Brienne's Amazing Secret Legacy

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Making a rare public appearance, George R. R. Martin was a guest at Balticon last weekend, where the author read a new extract from Winds of Winter. But the most intriguing tidbit he revealed to fans wasn’t actually in the chapter—instead, he confirmed a surprising backstory for everyone’s favorite kickass, Brienne of Tarth.

As reported by Vanity Fair, Martin told fans that Brienne’s ancestry stretches back into Westerosi history, and has a connection that is partially responsible for the looming, bulky frame that saw her mocked and scorned before she became a self-made knight. Because apparently, Brienne counts Ser Duncan the Tall, one of the most famous knights in Westeros, among her ancestors.

Duncan and Aegon as they appear in in the Hedge Knight comics adaptation. Art by Mike Miller
Show fans may not be familiar with Duncan (Joffrey mentions him when reading out the history of the Kingsguard in an episode from season four), butA Song of Ice and Fire readers should be more than familiar with the name. Duncan starred in Martin’s spinoff series of novellas Dunk and Egg. Much lighter-hearted and set many years before the events of the main books, the stories recount the adventures of legendary hedge knight Duncan, better known as Dunk from his days as a commoner in Flea Bottom, and his squire, “Egg.”


Egg is actually Aegon Targaryen, who starts the stories as a prince well down the line of succession for the Iron Throne, but who eventually becomes King Aegon V. Dunk and Egg travel all over Westeros performing knightly deeds, while the young Targaryen was able to experience his family’s kingdom from a commoner’s perspective.



George R.R. Martin Made Me Feel Unspeakably Depressed Yet Again
Few authors have as much power to draw you in with fun characters and thrilling adventures—and then …Read more

We’ve noted in the past that Dunk and Egg’s adventurous relationship has similarities that could be drawn between Brienne and Pod in the books (as well as how unspeakably tragic they are, when you think about where Duncan and Aegon end up), but at least we know that there’s actually a much stronger connection between the two knights. Plus, Dunk is often cited as one of Martin’s favorite characters to boot, right down to him requesting HBO turn the novellas into TV movies, so it shows how highly he regards Brienne to link her lineage to him. Ad for fans, it’s very nice to know Duncan’s chivalrous legacy is alive and well within the Maiden of Tarth
 
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