GOT 4/26/15

[FMPoke]

Tonight theme never underestimated the sleaziness of Littlefinger. He is proposing to marry Sansa to Ramsey but I will say it appears the storyline may have a different tone then the books with fake Arya. Ramsey seem much more sane at least for tonight. They are clearly moving the storyline along. They cur major characters out of the Tryon journey and had him meet straight up with Moorman. The also "cut' right to the chase with Jon as Lord Commander. Tommen certainly grew up in a hurry. From playing with to Sir Ponce to playing with a different kitty.

 

[Air_Thurman]

So basically they are setting Ollie up as the one to do the deed right?

Not sure how I feel about the Sansa stuff. I'm usually pretty easy going about changes but this is the first time I kind of felt uneasy. However, the show creators have been great so I'll give them the benefit of the doubt. I just don't get LF's angle.

 

[cornichon]

Littlefinger did convince Sansa to go along with the plan by telling her to "avenge" her family. And as we've seen, he loved Catelyn and would do almost anything for her. I assume they're going to have Littlefinger/Sansa plan for someone to do what Mance Rayder (in his different guise) did in the books. I can't really imagine that he is selling Sansa out.

 

[Air_Thurman]

Yeah, I think my biggest problem is no matter what LF's motivations are it seems like a gigantic risk for him to just hand over his biggest asset to the Boltons. Seems out of character for someone so calculating and measured.

 

[JonnyVito]

The North never forgets....

 

[Been Jammin]

On the Sansa thing....

I agree that it is very interesting, and possibly out of character for Littlefinger to turn her over to the Boltons.

I noted that the writers threw in the conversation between Littlefinger and Ramsay, where Littlefinger says "You are a Lord that I have heard very little about" (paraphrased). My guess is that the point of that conversation was to show us that Littlefinger didn't realize that he was turning Sansa over to a psychopath.

Another thing I noticed was that, when she was introduced to Ramsay, the camera panned over to a group of young women who seemed especially interested in Sansa. My first thought was that they were the spearwives that accompanied Mance, but then I remembered that none of that has happened in the show. Not sure if those girls will play a significant role or not.

When the old lady showed Sansa to her room, she told her "The North Remembers". My guess is that this will be the explanation for the "Ghost of Winterfell". Bolton men will start dying mysteriously and we will find out that they are being killed by northmen/northwomen who are still loyal to the Starks.

I have a hard time seeing Sansa being the one who is killing those men. HBO laid the groundwork for that with Littlefinger telling her to avenge her family, but my guess is that Littlefinger's plan will go horribly wrong when Ramsay's true nature is revealed. Poor Sansa.

One thing I am curious about is how Brienne fits into the Sansa storyline. I still think Theon will be the one to rescue her from the Boltons. Will Brienne be allowed to enter Winterfell and help with the rescue? Will Theon end up taking Sansa to Brienne who is camped outside the castle? We may not find out until next season.

@Air_Thurman Interesting point about Ollie. You may be on the right track. Hard to see him turning against Jon, but it does seem likely that they would be more likely to have him betrayed by a character we know than to be betrayed by some random dude in black.

Really loved the digs Marjorie was taking at Cersei last night. The interaction between the two of them, and between Tommen and each of them, was really well done.

 

[cornichon]

On the Sansa thing....

Another thing I noticed was that, when she was introduced to Ramsay, the camera panned over to a group of young women who seemed especially interested in Sansa. My first thought was that they were the spearwives that accompanied Mance, but then I remembered that none of that has happened in the show. Not sure if those girls will play a significant role or not.

I have a hard time seeing Sansa being the one who is killing those men. HBO laid the groundwork for that with Littlefinger telling her to avenge her family, but my guess is that Littlefinger's plan will go horribly wrong when Ramsay's true nature is revealed. Poor Sansa.

One thing I am curious about is how Brienne fits into the Sansa storyline. I still think Theon will be the one to rescue her from the Boltons. Will Brienne be allowed to enter Winterfell and help with the rescue? Will Theon end up taking Sansa to Brienne who is camped outside the castle? We may not find out until next season.

The girls they cut to are Ramsay's psychotic harem. Remember the girls he teased Theon with? Same girls. The one in the forefront was the one he was hunting runaway prisoners with shortly thereafter.

I didn't mean to imply that Sansa herself would be killing people in Winterfell. One assassin in the family seems enough. I meant that maybe, as part of her transition to calculating, manipulative Sansa, she might be the one to plan the killing. I think it more likely that Littlefinger will actually plan those murders (his own Red Wedding, as someone said), but I agree that his conversation with Ramsay was meant to show LF didn't know what a psycho Ramsay is.

I'm not sure how Brienne will fit into the Sansa storyline. I think it may be more likely that she's heading to Winterfell to get her shot at Stannis. Remember that Jon Snow asked Stannis when he would be leaving, and Stannis said he was headed for Winterfell "within the fortnight." Sansa has already shot her down, and this seems too convenient. Now instead of having the show focus on people all over the place, we're really whittling everything down to 4 locations (Winterfell, the Wall, King's Landing, Meereen).

 

[Air_Thurman]

They just keep randomly cutting to reaction shots of Ollie and are making a big deal about him hearing every conversation. Bowen Marsh also doesn't seem to be as important in the show (up to this point).

 

[Been Jammin]

@cornichon

Thanks for helping me out with Ramsay's "harem". You are absolutely right. It was obvious that HBO was focused on them for a reason, but I had forgotten about seeing them in previous episodes.

I hadn't thought about the idea of Littlefinger sticking around Winterfell. I just assumed that he would head back to the Vale and leave Sansa. I could see a scenario where Littlefinger stays and figures out ways for northmen/women to sabotage Bolton's plans. Interesting idea.

Good point about whittling down the locations. But, you forgot about Dorne and Bravos (where Arya is). Also, we have to assume that Bran will be back next season. I am wondering if Rickon will reappear at some point. It would be strange for him to just disappear and HBO to not revisit the fate of his character.

One other character I am wondering about. What happened to Theon's sister? I can't remember where she is now. (I know where she is at the end of book 5).

 

[cornichon]

Crud, you're right, I forgot about several locations. Well, the point still stands although they haven't "whittled" as much as I thought. I guess it's just that they're bringing more, different people together into these locations, like Stannis and Brienne heading to Winterfell, Jamie heading to Dorne, and Tyrion and Varys heading to Meereen. Side note: I assume the "queen" Mormont is taking Tyrion to is Dany, not Cersei. We know Cersei has a huge bounty out on Tyrion, but given that Mormont was just in the brothel with the fake Dany, I assume she's still the only one really on his mind.

The show has pretty well given up on the Iron Islands, it seems. That doesn't really bother me as I never really enjoyed any of those characters, but I wonder if maybe they'll show up again for the battle at the end?

 

[Been Jammin]

The show has pretty well given up on the Iron Islands, it seems. That doesn't really bother me as I never really enjoyed any of those characters, but I wonder if maybe they'll show up again for the battle at the end?

Did the show even acknowledge the death of Balon Greyjoy? I know Melisandre cooked the slugs...one for Renley, one for Joffrey and one for Balon....

 

[JonnyVito]

I have two theories on Sansa Stark right now. The first is that she will marry Ramsey and then with the help of the girls they zoomed in on will take the role of Mance and his women from the books. They will cause the mysterious happenings and killings. The Boltons will find out and Reek/Theon will help her. Then they escape by jumping the wall to safety and Brienne and Pod find them. The second is that the women who they zoomed in on will be Sansa's down fall because of jealousy and Sansa not Cat becomes lady stoneheart.

 

[cornichon]

Pretty sure Balon is still alive in the show. They haven't introduced any of the brothers (not that I recall), and the last time we say him, he was receiving a "package" from Bolton (pun intended).

 

[FMPoke]

Ollie an interesting character. They are clearly setting something up. Remember the wildings killed and ate his parents while making him watch and then send him to the wall. Up to this point he has worship Jon but part of what he was listening to last night was Stanis telling Jon what to do about the wildings was on him once they left. When Jon helps them live Ollie isn't going to take it well.

I'm wondering is Brienne is going to assume the Mance roll at Winterfell. That would make sense. It looks like to me Ramsey little harlem was checking out Sansa and not happy at all. My guess is they are going to make her life miserable. They or more likely Theon will most likely be the first people Brienne or Sansa kill. Did you notice how Theon would duck and hide every time Sansa came by? He may be one of the people the producing were talking about would die even though they are still alive in the books.

 

[Been Jammin]

Ollie an interesting character. They are clearly setting something up. Remember the wildings killed and ate his parents while making him watch and then send him to the wall. Up to this point he has worship Jon but part of what he was listening to last night was Stanis telling Jon what to do about the wildings was on him once they left. When Jon helps them live Ollie isn't going to take it well.

I'm wondering is Brienne is going to assume the Mance roll at Winterfell. That would make sense. It looks like to me Ramsey little harlem was checking out Sansa and not happy at all. My guess is they are going to make her life miserable. They or more likely Theon will most likely be the first people Brienne or Sansa kill. Did you notice how Theon would duck and hide every time Sansa came by? He may be one of the people the producing were talking about would die even though they are still alive in the books.

Hard to imagine Brienne getting into Winterfell and being trusted by the Boltons/Freys. If Littlefinger is still there, she would have no chance of fooling anyone. I could also see it going either way as to whether or not Sansa would out her as not being allegiant to the Boltons.

Maybe she could allow herself to be taken prisoner and escape captivity to rescue Sansa, but there would be a lot of risk involved with that plan (i.e. the Boltons might see no reason to keep her alive and just execute her).

I think it is more likely that she and Pod camp outside Winterfell and wait for an opportunity to get in or to get Sansa while she is outside the castle.

Tangent alert:

I heard some local guys discussing the show on the radio Monday. I hadn't thought about it before, but the average HBO viewer, who has not read the books, has no idea why Littlefinger has that nickname. These guys assumed it was a reference to him having a small penis. Thought that was pretty funny.

 

[Cowpoke]

I still don't think little finger gives a crap about Sansa... But if she marries Bolton, then he and daddy die, LF can swoop in and marry her. Now he has the vale and the north... With Sansa at his side, the north will follow him. As he just said...the last time the north and the vale joined sides, they defeated an empire. This time though, they will both be controlled by little finger (by his plan anyway, he doesn't know Stannis's plan).