Didn't one of you come up with this already. I swear I read this theory on here already?
Click link to theory on Jon Snows twin..
Click link to theory on Jon Snows twin..
Game of Thrones theory on Jon Snow having a sister.
- Thread starter JonnyVito
- Start date
Maybe it was a twin theory but they were using young Griff as the other twin no that I am thinking back on it.
This theory would be very interesting.
Forgive my inability to make an obvious connection between these two.Makes sense. I can't think its an accident that the reed kids look so different. Blonde vs black hair has been shown to mean different parentage before.
Speaking of looks...
As for Jon and Meera, the whole looks thing seems more like a creation of the casting people on the show than some super secret deal from the book. Wow, two people on the show have curly dark hair, they must be related!
I think there is a decent amount of evidence in the books (as spelled out in the above link) that Jon and Meera are twins. It could be argued that HBO knew this tidbit and casted accordingly. I could also see the argument that it is just a coincidence.
One thing that I find interesting is that HBO has killed off some minor characters that are still alive in the books. For example, Jon's buddies Pyp and Grenn were sent to a different castle along the wall because Jon wasn't comfortable with the conflict of being their buddy and being their boss. It was important to not have them at Castle Black when Jon was killed by other members of the NW. HBO, just killed the two of them off to eliminate them from the picture.
In HBO's version, Jojen has died, but he is still alive in the books. I find it interesting that HBO was OK with killing Jojen but Meera is still alive. That would suggest that GRRM revealed to HBO that Jojen doesn't do anything important in book 6 or 7 while Meera still has a key part to play.
Seems flimsy to me.There doesn't seem to be any more to it than the kind of look similar and are around the same age.
One of the sites is reporting it will happen and the other one is saying it won't. I don't know who to believe just crossing my fingers and hoping.
I would agree with you. IMO, there is a lot of evidence suggesting that GRRM's High Septon is also not HR. The biggest issues have to do with the Crannogmen worshiping The Old Gods, and it being unlikely that he could convince everyone that he was a lifetime believer in The Seven. In addition, the entire plot (for Reed to infiltrate the sparrows and put himself in position to be able to make things difficult for the Lannisters) has a lot of holes in it. Too many things had to fall right for the plan to work. It seems unlikely that GRRM would overlook those details.
With that said, the one thing that makes me think that Reed might be the HS is the simple question of....where the heck is Howland Reed? It is obvious that GRRM wanted to keep him (and Benjen Stark) out of the story to keep the reader guessing about Jon's background. But, it seems very strange that Reed didn't muster his men to march with Robb's army. It also seems very strange that he would send his 2 kids alone to Winterfell. That suggests that he was away from his castle when Jojen and Meera set out on their journey. If he has not clandestinely become the High Sparrow, where the heck is he and what has he been doing?
I agree Been. Where is Howland Reed is one of the things that intrigues me most. I just think he could be a lot of places that don't involve being the High Sparrow.
I didn't buy the HR / H. Sparrow thing either when I read it a good while back. I just noticed a similarity in appearance between him and Jojen when I googled the reed siblings and a pic of the HS was further down the page.
I don't know who the HS is, but he came out of nowhere to become very powerfull and a major thorne in the Lannister's sides.
I don't know who the HS is, but he came out of nowhere to become very powerfull and a major thorne in the Lannister's sides.
The Crannogmen would be next to useless in a war south of the Neck.
I think if there was a plan at all for what Reed's men should do during the war it was "make it hard as hell for anyone to invade the North by land."
I think if there was a plan at all for what Reed's men should do during the war it was "make it hard as hell for anyone to invade the North by land."
Generally I agree with your takes, but I don't know that there is anything in the books to support your stance here. We do know that the "bog devils" are accurate archers and use the trees and marshes of the swamp to their advantage. We don't know for sure that they are incapable of marching over land, fighting in an organized fashion, and making an impact, in battle, as a ranged unit. You may, in fact, be correct that guerrilla warfare is the only thing they are good at, but I don't think it is stated in the books.
Robb ordered the Crannogmen to stay in the neck and bleed anyone coming up the neck. The books don't say they can't fight a traditional war but when there specialty is poison darts, nets and knives that probably doesn't translate well to non-guerrilla warfare.
I guess my question regarding Howland Reed being the High Septon would be even though his whereabouts are currently unknown, that doesn't mean that he wasn't highly visible during/after Robert's Rebellion. You would think anyone who was tight with Eddard (the books ever mention Howland/Robert's relationship?) would be fairly well known.
Couple that with the characters tend to have excellent recollection of people and events involved Robert's Rebellion in all the books, I'm guessing someone would have outed Howland if he was pretending to be the High Septon.
Couple that with the characters tend to have excellent recollection of people and events involved Robert's Rebellion in all the books, I'm guessing someone would have outed Howland if he was pretending to be the High Septon.
That is a good point, but also one that can be easily explained away. It is possible that Reed, wasn't extremely active during RR. Supposedly, he was one of Eddard's close friends, but their prior interactions may have only taken place in the Neck and at Winterfell. Reed could have joined Eddard's group just prior to their trek to the Tower of Joy. Everyone else there (besides Eddard, Howland and possibly 1 or 2 infants) died there. Reed then headed back to his castle. Under those circumstances, no one in KL would know what he looks like.
On top of that... Reed owed Lyanna, and was friends with Ned. He was, so far as we know (and likely not at all I think), no friend of Robert's.
It's possible Reed's only involvement in the entire Rebellion was going to the Tower of Joy with Ned. I don't remember any direct suggestion otherwise.
The best I can remember, which goes to Crannogmen in war on the planes and river lands also, was Ned owing his life to Reed in his fight with Aurthor Dayne. Originally this is easily taken for a sign of martial prowess, but given what we've learned of Crannogmen (and of Dayne) it seems more likely he caught Dayne in a net or with a dart that allowed Ned to kill him instead of 5'0"
Howland Reed killing The Sword of the Freakin' Morning with his battle axe.
It's possible Reed's only involvement in the entire Rebellion was going to the Tower of Joy with Ned. I don't remember any direct suggestion otherwise.
The best I can remember, which goes to Crannogmen in war on the planes and river lands also, was Ned owing his life to Reed in his fight with Aurthor Dayne. Originally this is easily taken for a sign of martial prowess, but given what we've learned of Crannogmen (and of Dayne) it seems more likely he caught Dayne in a net or with a dart that allowed Ned to kill him instead of 5'0"
Howland Reed killing The Sword of the Freakin' Morning with his battle axe.
I imagine they March just fine. What I doubt they do well is stand in formation and hold off a regiment of armored pikes on flat, dry ground. As far as I know they have no heavy armor (where would they get it anyway?), and even if they did they're not big burly guys that are going to stand toe-to-toe with the men of the West.
We know very well how they resisted the Ironborn...
Agreed. However, when Connington is using the Gold Company at the end of DWD, there are mentions of the Gold Company having regiments of archers. The Crannogmen do use bows and arrows (not just poison darts). They don't have to wear armor or go toe to toe with bigger men to be an effective part of a large army.
I'm not saying you are wrong with your take. Just saying we don't know for sure. (I actually think you are right....just playing devil's advocate).
Well, so long as we agree with each other , let's make it a great argument!
Archers are great. In fact, Westeros seems to be within a few months to a few decades away from the archer making the mounted knight somewhat obsolete anyway... So long as enough common men survive the winter to make that possible. That, and assuming magic and dragons will stand aside long enough to let it happen.
The heavy cavalry of Westeros is extremely well armored. In order for an archer unit to hurt them they have to be able to penetrate that armor. Your standard mideval bow isn't going to do that effectively. A long bow, a good cross bow, or perhaps a well trained mounted archer that can take advantage of his mount's 30+ mph could do it (hmm... Who access to those?).
Even assuming the Crannogmen hunt with long bows (seems inconvenient in the marshes and for hunting small game), is it still effectively a long bow when aimed by a 5'1" archer? I find it hard to believe the Crannogmen produce crossbows in large numbers since no one else in Westeros seems to. So far as I know they have no horses to mount their archers.
I think the men of the Neck are very effective killers. I don't think they're warriors though. They could stop an army in its tracks in the marshes, but I think the Andals of the South would be more likely to die laughing than from the enemy if they tried to siege Harrenhal with their blow darts, nets and poisoned arrows.
Archers are great. In fact, Westeros seems to be within a few months to a few decades away from the archer making the mounted knight somewhat obsolete anyway... So long as enough common men survive the winter to make that possible. That, and assuming magic and dragons will stand aside long enough to let it happen.
The heavy cavalry of Westeros is extremely well armored. In order for an archer unit to hurt them they have to be able to penetrate that armor. Your standard mideval bow isn't going to do that effectively. A long bow, a good cross bow, or perhaps a well trained mounted archer that can take advantage of his mount's 30+ mph could do it (hmm... Who access to those?).
Even assuming the Crannogmen hunt with long bows (seems inconvenient in the marshes and for hunting small game), is it still effectively a long bow when aimed by a 5'1" archer? I find it hard to believe the Crannogmen produce crossbows in large numbers since no one else in Westeros seems to. So far as I know they have no horses to mount their archers.
I think the men of the Neck are very effective killers. I don't think they're warriors though. They could stop an army in its tracks in the marshes, but I think the Andals of the South would be more likely to die laughing than from the enemy if they tried to siege Harrenhal with their blow darts, nets and poisoned arrows.
@TheRedSon
You have made a very convincing argument. The only counter I have is that a good tactical leader, like Stannis, (and maybe Robb, who outfoxed the Lannister army and even took Jaime captive), would find a way to use an asset to his advantage. If he had 300 fighters from the Neck, he would figure out a way that they could help him. Maybe he would send them behind enemy lines to harry opposing scouts/outposts. Maybe he would find a wooded area that would allow them to use their guerrilla warfare and draw the enemy into that area.
You have made a very convincing argument. The only counter I have is that a good tactical leader, like Stannis, (and maybe Robb, who outfoxed the Lannister army and even took Jaime captive), would find a way to use an asset to his advantage. If he had 300 fighters from the Neck, he would figure out a way that they could help him. Maybe he would send them behind enemy lines to harry opposing scouts/outposts. Maybe he would find a wooded area that would allow them to use their guerrilla warfare and draw the enemy into that area.
Well I think Robb did make good tactical use of them. His mistake was with the Ironborn and a skirt.
By leaving them in the Neck he was able to bring nearly every skilled soldier the North could muster with little fear of counter invasion by land. The East coast was secure so long as Stannis/Renly posed a threat (and Lannisport is on the wrong coast). The Ironborn would have covered his only vulnerable flank had they played along.
By leaving them in the Neck he was able to bring nearly every skilled soldier the North could muster with little fear of counter invasion by land. The East coast was secure so long as Stannis/Renly posed a threat (and Lannisport is on the wrong coast). The Ironborn would have covered his only vulnerable flank had they played along.
