From David Brooks

[Ponca Dan]

The NY Times “conservative.” I never thought I’d like him. But he nails it with this editorial. For those of you on this board that think of yourselves as conservatives and approve of US immigration policy, this should give you food for thought.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/18/opinion/amnesty-deportation-immigration-family-separation.html

 

[Headhunter]

Why don't all these people who are against enforcement of law focus their energy on CHANGING the law.

Things are really upside down the people sworn to enforce the law, all laws, are the villains.

 

[CowboyJD]

Why don't all these people who are against enforcement of law focus their energy on CHANGING the law.

Things are really upside down the people sworn to enforce the law, all laws, are the villains.

Can you cite the law than mandates removal of children from parents in these situations?

 

[Ponca Dan]

Why don't all these people who are against enforcement of law focus their energy on CHANGING the law.

Things are really upside down the people sworn to enforce the law, all laws, are the villains.

You are deflecting from the point of the article. The point of the article, in case you didn’t understand it, is the actions by the Trump administration are counter to time honored conservative principles. Those people are not conservatives, as many think, they are statists who want to drain the swamp of liberals, thus leaving the swamp empty of everyone but themselves. Brooks is raising a huge red flag for conservatives to see: conservative principles are being squashed in an attempt to get even with liberals. Would you care to offer an opinion on that?

 

[CSCOTTOSUPOKES]

Why don't all these people who are against enforcement of law focus their energy on CHANGING the law.

Things are really upside down the people sworn to enforce the law, all laws, are the villains.

Let’s say Republican lawmakers draft legislation and Trump vetoes it...what is your position then?

 

[Rdcldad]

Can you cite the law than mandates removal of children from parents in these situations?

can you cite the law they have used to file an injunction against this process?

 

[CSCOTTOSUPOKES]

can you cite the law they have used to file an injunction against this process?

Have you read about the lawsuit that was just filed against the Trump Administration?

 

[CowboyJD]

can you cite the law they have used to file an injunction against this process?

Can you cite the case where this injunction has supposedly been filed?

I’ll look into it.

So about that law supposed mandating removal....can you?

 

[Headhunter]

Can you cite the case where this injunction has supposedly been filed?

I’ll look into it.

So about that law supposed mandating removal....can you?

Isn't it common practice in this country that when a parent is arrested their child is put in protective custody if there is no other responsible family/LEGAL RESIDENT to take them?

Don't cross boarder illegally and get arrested, problem solved.

The reason they are crossing illegally is because they know their asylum claim is bogus. If they get caught then they scream ASYLUM! ASYLUM! because that is what they have been coached to say.

 

[CowboyJD]

Isn't it common practice in this country that when a parent is arrested their child is put in protective custody if there is no other responsible family/LEGAL RESIDENT to take them?

Don't cross boarder illegally and get arrested, problem solved.

The reason they are crossing illegally is because they know their asylum claim is bogus. If they get caught then they scream ASYLUM! ASYLUM! because that is what they have been coached to say.

So that’s a no.

You can’t.

Got it.

 

[Rdcldad]

Can you cite the case where this injunction has supposedly been filed?

I’ll look into it

sure can’t

 

[Rdcldad]

So about that law supposed mandating removal....can you?

from personal experience
custody situations and the law
get pretty murky

 

[CowboyJD]

sure can’t

from personal experience
custody situations and the law
get pretty murky

Fair enough, and for the record you aren’t one of the useful idiots aping Trump’s claims that there is a Democrat law that mandates this separation.

 

[anon_xl72qcu5isp39]

Fair enough, and for the record you aren’t one of the useful idiots aping Trump’s claims that there is a Democrat law that mandates this separation.

Or that it isn't happening.

Or that the law requires it.

Or that the Bible requires it.

The progression of specious arguments pushing back against this should tell an objective observer everything they need to know.

 

[Ostatedchi]

The solutions to all this immigration is simple.

Fix the administration of LEGAL immigration. That's an executive branch duty and one that Trump can actually do.

Assign the resources to clear the backlog. Start processing border crossers in real time at the time they cross. Reject the ones and don't allow entry.

Also, create a class of migrant labor immigration workers. Give them 6 month work visas. If they reapply, renew. Repeat in perpetuity. But that isn't a path to citizenship.

Easy.

 

[Headhunter]

Isn't it common practice in this country that when a parent is arrested their child is put in protective custody if there is no other responsible family/LEGAL RESIDENT to take them?

Don't cross boarder illegally and get arrested, problem solved.

The reason they are crossing illegally is because they know their asylum claim is bogus. If they get caught then they scream ASYLUM! ASYLUM! because that is what they have been coached to say.

So that’s a no.

You can’t.

Got it.

Never said or claimed there was such a law just pointing out kids being separated from their parents is very common in this country.

 

[Rdcldad]

Fair enough, and for the record you aren’t one of the useful idiots aping Trump’s claims that there is a Democrat law that mandates this separation.

trump told congress to fix it

it looks like they’re getting off their ass to do something

now that congress has seen they can
there are no excuses going forward

 

[CowboyJD]

Never said or claimed there was such a law just pointing out kids being separated from their parents is very common in this country.

So you were just skyballing when you were saying they should focus their energy on changing the law.

Why don't all these people who are against enforcement of law focus their energy on CHANGING the law.

Things are really upside down the people sworn to enforce the law, all laws, are the villains.

Got it.

You are aware your boy Trump has explicitly claimed there is such a law though, right?

 

[CowboyJD]

trump told congress to fix it

it looks like they’re getting off their ass to do something

now that congress has seen they can
there are no excuses going forward

I agree.

As I said in the other thread, it’s bad optics for Schumer to advocate sitting on their asses and leaving it to Trump.

 

[Bitter Creek]

it’s bad optics for Schumer to advocate sitting on their asses and leaving it to Trump.

I'm not sure that I agree with this from a political strategery standpoint.

Armchair QBing is easy and is effectively mistake-free, since it is also action free.

 

[CowboyJD]

I'm not sure that I agree with this from a political strategery standpoint.

Armchair QBing is easy and is effectively mistake-free, since it is also action free.

From a political strategery standpoint “Trump can fix this with a snap of his fingers, so we’re not doing nothing” plays significantly less well for those not already firmly in MAGA or Schumer Left camps than “Trump won’t do anything to fix this, so we will force his hand and fix it ourselves.”

IMO.

No guts, no glory. Chicks dig scars. Get in there and mix it up.

 

[purkey]

Can you cite the law than mandates removal of children from parents in these situations?

just send their asses to jail with their parents....

 

[CowboyJD]

just send their asses to jail with their parents....

So that’s a no from you too.

Check.

 

[Bitter Creek]

No guts, no glory. Chicks dig scars. Get in there and mix it up.

I agree with that.

Politicians are woefully short on sacks

 

[CowboyJD]

I agree with that.

Politicians are woefully short on sacks

 

[Headhunter]

Never said or claimed there was such a law just pointing out kids being separated from their parents is very common in this country.

So you were just skyballing when you were saying they should focus their energy on changing the law.

Why don't all these people who are against enforcement of law focus their energy on CHANGING the law.

Things are really upside down the people sworn to enforce the law, all laws, are the villains.

Got it.

You are aware your boy Trump has explicitly claimed there is such a law though, right?

So you don't think there are any laws that need to changed or amended? When a crime is committed and a person is arrested their children don't accompany them to jail. But rather than discuss that you respond with dickhead sarcasm.

 

[CowboyJD]

So you don't think there are any laws that need to changed or amended? When a crime is committed and a person is arrested their children don't accompany them to jail. But rather than discuss that you respond with dickhead sarcasm.

You made a statement indicating that Trump was just enforcing the law.

I asked you to cite what law Trump was just enforcing in separating families.

You didn’t/can’t/won’t and want to talk about about generalities.

I’m not interested in generalities.

The reason these families have been separated is that Session/Kelly/Miller advocated and convinced Trump to prosecute and adjudicate illegal entry allegations before processing asylum claims. There isn’t a law mandating that. That’s a policy decision not mandated by law. Does it violate any law? I don’t think so.

 

[Ponca Dan]

So you don't think there are any laws that need to changed or amended? When a crime is committed and a person is arrested their children don't accompany them to jail. But rather than discuss that you respond with dickhead sarcasm.

When a parent commits a crime and is sent to jail the other parent takes care of the child. Or a grandmother, or an aunt, or some other relative. The child you describe is not ripped from its mother's arms and locked in a dog cage along with several other children he does not know. The child you describe is not separated from his siblings. The incarcerated immigrant child, no matter how young, is not allowed to be touched, or comforted when it cries in terror. The child you describe is. If you or I did what our government does to those children we would be locked away for a very long time. It would be considered child abuse, kidnapping and countless other charges would be brought. But for some reason you think it is OK for a government agent to do what would put us in prison?

 

[Ponca Dan]

So you don't think there are any laws that need to changed or amended? When a crime is committed and a person is arrested their children don't accompany them to jail. But rather than discuss that you respond with dickhead sarcasm.

I am disappointed you are still not addressing the point of the David Brooks article. Do you consider yourself to be a conservative? If you do, do you see the point he is making that the Trump administration is violating one of the cardinal tenets of conservatism? Can you address That?

 

[windriverrange]

This is an example of ICE going after a perfectly productive member of society. I got the anecdote from a series of reports that Deborah Sontag and Dale Russakoff did for ProPublica and The Philadelphia Inquirer. They found that 64 percent of the immigrants arrested by ICE in the agency’s Philadelphia region had no prior criminal conviction.

Well except for the fact that the broke the law by entering this country ILLEGALLY!

 

[anon_xl72qcu5isp39]

Well except for the fact that the broke the law by entering this country ILLEGALLY!

Zey don't have zee papers in order, no? Mmm?