Fix vs Gross
- Thread starter OSU48
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My expectations are for Daton to split or get swept this weekend as Gross is tough and experienced. This is a redshirt freshman wrestling a defending National champion that is one of the best riders in the country. getting out on bottom is always the Achilles heel of freshman and freestyle greats. Lizak is pretty much the same thing, but a little more vulnerable on his feet.
It would not surprise me if results flip in the spring!
It would not surprise me if results flip in the spring!
I agree with OSUMatFan that Daton will struggle from the bottom in both matches. He needs to be dominant on his feet and in the case of Gross not try to ride him. Gross may be too seasoned for Daton to win but I do think Lizak is beatable so I predict Daton may not only win in Minnesota but could dominate.
I don't think the gross match will be close. gross has the size, strength, and riding advantage. Gross turned about 95 percent of his opponents last year. if daton can recover from the early season loss than the lizak match will be closer. if he can't recover an finds himself in the leg ride of lizak it might be another tough night. tough back to back
I mentioned this in another thread but Daton very easily could go 0-2 this weekend and end still wind up in the finals in March. He has that type of talent but the challenge for him is that big this weekend.
He is facing two of the top guys at the weight including the defending NC. They also happen to posses the skill set that would appear to give Daton trouble. Both are big, long guys who can scramble and are nasty on top. Gross got back points in the finals last year and is turned almost high level guy he has faced. Lizak also has a brutal ride. They both are also very seasoned high level guys with a bunch of bigtime matches under their belt.
It will be interesting to see how Daton handlez these challenges which come on back to back days. I don't know if anothe rwreslter will see a more challenging 24 hours.
I think Gross will win and might separate the score a decent amount this time but I expect that separation to close as the seaosn wears on and we will see a very close competitive match at the back end of the season.
Daton can beat Lizak this weekend. I wish it wasn't 24 hours after facing Gross so a loss would not shock me but I predict if he does it would/will be the only time he ever beats Daton.
He is facing two of the top guys at the weight including the defending NC. They also happen to posses the skill set that would appear to give Daton trouble. Both are big, long guys who can scramble and are nasty on top. Gross got back points in the finals last year and is turned almost high level guy he has faced. Lizak also has a brutal ride. They both are also very seasoned high level guys with a bunch of bigtime matches under their belt.
It will be interesting to see how Daton handlez these challenges which come on back to back days. I don't know if anothe rwreslter will see a more challenging 24 hours.
I think Gross will win and might separate the score a decent amount this time but I expect that separation to close as the seaosn wears on and we will see a very close competitive match at the back end of the season.
Daton can beat Lizak this weekend. I wish it wasn't 24 hours after facing Gross so a loss would not shock me but I predict if he does it would/will be the only time he ever beats Daton.
What makes this harder than average to guess about is both how fix looked against Gilman (was the aggressor but had a slight strength disadvantage) and fix is not your typical really good freshman. He is an exceptional freshman but dont think he has faced anyone with gross's riding skills. Will be interesting
I'll play...Daton should lose both. Right now he's an undersized 133 and he's had very little mat time in college. So my prediction...Daton takes both matches, gives up riding time but no back points, wins on his feet.
Lee even struggled a bit last year with loss to kid from Oregon state, then dominated opponents the last half of season.
Daton loses to gross but beats lizak
Daton loses to gross but beats lizak
Just wondering. .. has it happened before that a true freshman in his first match defeated the defending national champion?
That's embarrassing.... I watched that match ....sigh how quickly we forget
Cannot like that video enough!!
You gave us an excuse to watch it again.
Such a great video with the team celebrating in the background.
Lee was coming back from knee surgery which he had after losing in the state finals to DeSanto. Piccinini was fairly close in January and was destroyed at Nationals by Lee. Maybe something was wrong with Piccinini because he should have beat Lizak in the dual and got beat at Nationals 16 to 0. So Lee's struggles weren't just adjusting to college but coming off knee surgery and not being in wrestling shape early in the season because of recovering from that surgery. If I remember right many thought he would redshirt. This is my memory of Lee's circumstances last year.
Do you really think there is any chance he will choose neutral? Name an early season match where Smith has allowed a wrestle to choose neutral, if you've ever seen such was it a freshman. How is one ever going to learn how to get off bottom against the best if you avoid trying? Now NCAA finals different story, but it ain't March yet.
I remember at the OCU tourney when Joe was a freshman and he chose neutral against marsteller. John was pissed Joe came out with the win like 6-3
I;m very stoic at athletic events, that match I jumped & yelled.
You are allowed to choose neutral when your goal is to never lose a match in college.
I'm guessing he was wrestling unattached with no official OSU coach in his corner.
Plus it was a poor decision on his part because I don't remember Marsteller being a killer on top as a 57 for the cowboys.
Weren't there matches last year where Gross was on top in both the 2nd and 3rd periods? Wouldn't it be smart of fix if it is his choice in the 2nd period to take neutral knowing Gross will take top when it is his choice in the 3rd?
You're going to get your chance if you're fix to try to get off bottom and most of the time if you cant get out in one period you probably cant get out in two periods either. So why not take neutral in one of the periods and do two things ...give yourself a chance to win and also have one period to try to escape?
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John wants to make sure you can escape and will always make a freshman wrestler choose down. It's all practice until March when you wrestle for Oklahoma State!
As fans we like to see our boys win every match. John wants them to win in March. Getting the experience against Gross and Lizak on bottom will be great for Fix. I would think one period on bottom against each would be enough. If it is our choice I would hope John would let them defer in the second period and then choose neutral in the third period if the opponent chooses top.
As fans we like to see our boys win every match. John wants them to win in March. Getting the experience against Gross and Lizak on bottom will be great for Fix. I would think one period on bottom against each would be enough. If it is our choice I would hope John would let them defer in the second period and then choose neutral in the third period if the opponent chooses top.
Hard to disagree with John Smith but I do in this instance. My feeling is you practice hard and learn during practice how to escape. In a match you go with your strengths.
Plus I don't remember many of our wrestlers that improved a whole lot from that down position in their careers. Does anyone got some good examples of significant improvement. I think you can get demoralized getting abused from the bottom. Now John Smith was different in that he was 150% committed to being the best. Most wrestlers aren't that committed.
Fix will get his chance to see what he can do on bottom vs Gross regardless of what choice Fix's makes. And if Gross rises out for two periods , guess what Lizak will do the next night.
I think part of the challenge is that it's very hard to simulate a Gross or a Lizak in the practice room. We've seen that from the Picc & Kaid matches. Daton might need to practice against someone like Wes Ahrberg or Gavin Stika in order to get a feel for that long lanky style.
I think you take down against Gross and see how it goes. Win or loss, Daton will likely see him again at Big12s. But if it doesn't go well then no way do you take down against Lizak. He wouldn't have an opportunity to avenge a possible loss because Minny won't be at the Scuffle. If Lizak then loses to Pletcher and Micic, it would hurt Daton's seed at Nationals.
I think you take down against Gross and see how it goes. Win or loss, Daton will likely see him again at Big12s. But if it doesn't go well then no way do you take down against Lizak. He wouldn't have an opportunity to avenge a possible loss because Minny won't be at the Scuffle. If Lizak then loses to Pletcher and Micic, it would hurt Daton's seed at Nationals.
This....if your goal is to win the match you employ the strategy which is most likely to result in the win. Gross might very well take top when it's his option. If you're great on your feet and your facing a hammer on top I'm not sure what point you're trying to prove by going away from your strength to his.
I understand the logic in the case of someone like Daton who hasn't faced this type of elite top game in his career. The goal is to win in March and, if you can get away, the path to victory is much simpler. In this case, we don't know if Fix will struggle or not, we're just guessing based on the opposition and the fact that many freshmen do. Why not find out now so you have that information down the road? He will likely see Gross again at Big 12s, then could see either of these guys again at NCAAs.
That said, I think with a guy like Brock, who has struggled throughout his career, the ship has sailed and he is what he is going to be. He should never take down again.
That said, I think with a guy like Brock, who has struggled throughout his career, the ship has sailed and he is what he is going to be. He should never take down again.
If Daton chooses down in the second period he will face the real possibility that he will start in the down position for both 2 minute periods...and possibly get ridden for the last four minutes of the Gross match imo. Guess we will see. Hopefully we’re underestimating his ability to get out.
I do know that at Reno in the finals he was behind 1 to 0 against Fausz and he took neutral. He got the takedown to win in the last 30 seconds of the match. Fausz was tall and a good rider but not in Gross's league. I hope Daton shocks the country Saturday night. I remember Kaid's first match against Gross where he got a quick takedown and I thought maybe he can win but in matches my memory is Gross got as many takedowns as Kaid which ended up being very bad for Kaid. Daton can not give up many or maybe even 1 against Gross.
Z is the only one that comes to mind. He couldn't escape from a wet paper bag when he got here, but by the end of his career no one could ride him. There may be a couple of others. Kaid's lack of improvement in this area is frustrating.
Derek Fix was in his corner for that match, as well as G's match against Luke Karam at the Scuffle. G also took neutral and then won by getting the takedown.
