Europe Faces Bleak Winter Energy Crisis

[2012Bearcat]

Europe Faces Bleak Winter Energy Crisis Years in the Making

(Bloomberg) -- Europe is bracing for a tough winter as an energy crisis that’s been years in the making leaves the continent relying on the vagaries of the weather.Faced with surging gas and electricity prices, countries from the U.K. to Germany will need to count on mild temperatures to get...

finance.yahoo.com

I can not help but think, "no shit, what did you think would happen?" I don't want to wish ill on anyone but sometimes people have to suffer the consequences of their decisions to learn their lesson. As we learned in Texas last winter, renewable energy is great when it works but when it doesn't the consequences can be life threatening.

 

[Corndog2021]

Europe Faces Bleak Winter Energy Crisis Years in the Making

(Bloomberg) -- Europe is bracing for a tough winter as an energy crisis that’s been years in the making leaves the continent relying on the vagaries of the weather.Faced with surging gas and electricity prices, countries from the U.K. to Germany will need to count on mild temperatures to get...

finance.yahoo.com

I can not help but think, "no shit, what did you think would happen?" I don't want to wish ill on anyone but sometimes people have to suffer the consequences of their decisions to learn their lesson. As we learned in Texas last winter, renewable energy is great when it works but when it doesn't the consequences can be life threatening.

Liberal policies- get ya very time

 

[Ponca Dan]

Europe Faces Bleak Winter Energy Crisis Years in the Making

(Bloomberg) -- Europe is bracing for a tough winter as an energy crisis that’s been years in the making leaves the continent relying on the vagaries of the weather.Faced with surging gas and electricity prices, countries from the U.K. to Germany will need to count on mild temperatures to get...

finance.yahoo.com

I can not help but think, "no shit, what did you think would happen?" I don't want to wish ill on anyone but sometimes people have to suffer the consequences of their decisions to learn their lesson. As we learned in Texas last winter, renewable energy is great when it works but when it doesn't the consequences can be life threatening.

Some of the blame will be placed on the Trump administration's attempt to block the pipeline from Russia. And it will be a justifiable pointing of finger. But essentially you are correct. It is insane to allow any government to set mandated one-size-fits-all policy on things like energy dispersal.

 

[OKSTATE1]

Some of the blame will be placed on the Trump administration's attempt to block the pipeline from Russia. And it will be a justifiable pointing of finger. But essentially you are correct. It is insane to allow any government to set mandated one-size-fits-all policy on things like energy dispersal.

Trump just wanted Germany and Europe to purchase Oil from their NATO allies. You also said attempt - did it actually happen?

 

[Ponca Dan]

Trump just wanted Germany and Europe to purchase Oil from their NATO allies. You also said attempt - did it actually happen?

The point is Germany and Europe wanted to buy the oil from Russia, not the USA. I think the Trump administration threw up every roadblock they could think of to stop it, making it harder to get and more expensive to buy. But Germany and Europe were unperturbed and found solutions around the American roadblocks. So the American resistance failed, but did set back the timetable for delivery. That’s why they will blame Trump for the shortfall this year, and they will be partially correct.

 

[OKSTATE1]

The point is Germany and Europe wanted to buy the oil from Russia, not the USA. I think the Trump administration threw up every roadblock they could think of to stop it, making it harder to get and more expensive to buy. But Germany and Europe were unperturbed and found solutions around the American roadblocks. So the American resistance failed, but did set back the timetable for delivery. That’s why they will blame Trump for the shortfall this year, and they will be partially correct.

Well shit, let's just fund the Russian military and not the USA which pays for most of the NATO alliance.

 

[JimmyBob]

That’s why they will blame Trump for the shortfall this year, and they will be partially correct.

F*CK 'em.

 

[2012Bearcat]

The point is Germany and Europe wanted to buy the oil from Russia, not the USA. I think the Trump administration threw up every roadblock they could think of to stop it, making it harder to get and more expensive to buy. But Germany and Europe were unperturbed and found solutions around the American roadblocks. So the American resistance failed, but did set back the timetable for delivery. That’s why they will blame Trump for the shortfall this year, and they will be partially correct.

Please tell me you are more informed about geopolitics than this. Russia already had a pipeline running to Europe but it ran through Ukraine, who relied on the pipeline for revenue. Interesting that Biden screwed Ukraine over and gave Putin a gift. The new pipeline runs under the Baltic Sea avoiding Ukraine. Pipeline has been completed and is only awaiting certification from German regulators, which in typical government efficiency say it will take 4 months to certify.

Nord Stream 2: Gazprom says new pipeline to Germany is ready

Nord Stream 2 will double Moscow's natural gas exports to Germany, bypassing Ukraine.

www.bbc.com

 

[Ponca Dan]

Well shit, let's just fund the Russian military and not the USA which pays for most of the NATO alliance.

Yeah, it sucks that they wanted to buy from Russia instead of the US. But “the buyer is always right.” I think they partly wanted to poke America in the eye for our condescending bullying attitude, which, let’s face it, was Trumps modus operandi with our allies. But over and above that they obviously felt it is in their best interest to have a direct pipeline even if it is coming from Russia. It seemed hard for the Trump admin to understand or accept that Germany and Europe were damned if they were going to be bossed around by America as if they are supposed to be subservient. They are sovereign nations that make choices based on what they see as their best interest. Sometimes that goes against what the American government wants.

 

[Ponca Dan]

Please tell me you are more informed about geopolitics than this. Russia already had a pipeline running to Europe but it ran through Ukraine, who relied on the pipeline for revenue. Interesting that Biden screwed Ukraine over and gave Putin a gift. The new pipeline runs under the Baltic Sea avoiding Ukraine. Pipeline has been completed and is only awaiting certification from German regulators, which in typical government efficiency say it will take 4 months to certify.

Nord Stream 2: Gazprom says new pipeline to Germany is ready

Nord Stream 2 will double Moscow's natural gas exports to Germany, bypassing Ukraine.

www.bbc.com

Well I’m sure you know more about it than me. My understanding is the pipeline had to be routed under the Baltic Sea because of American interference. Which slowed things down and jacked up the price. Which will be one of the excuses they will use if they have heating fuel shortages this winter.

 

[OUSOONER67]

**** em and feed em fish heads.

 

[2012Bearcat]

Well I’m sure you know more about it than me. My understanding is the pipeline had to be routed under the Baltic Sea because of American interference. Which slowed things down and jacked up the price. Which will be one of the excuses they will use if they have heating fuel shortages this winter.

They ran a new pipeline to hurt Ukraine not because of American interference, that is a ruse. Think about it, is it easier and less costly to run a pipeline on land or under an ocean? Oh and it will be an excuse that will only be bought by those that don't know any better.

 

[Ponca Dan]

They ran a new pipeline to hurt Ukraine not because of American interference, that is a ruse. Think about it, is it easier and less costly to run a pipeline on land or under an ocean? Oh and it will be an excuse that will only be bought by those that don't know any better.

You may be right. The only “knowledge” I have about running the pipeline under the sea is from writings I saw out of the corner of my eye. I do believe the Trump administration made every attempt to bully Germany and Europe into dropping the pipeline, and they resisted with equal temerity. And I agree if the American bullying is used as the sole reason for heating fuel shortages this winter it will not be true. But it will be one reason.

 

[2012Bearcat]

You may be right. The only “knowledge” I have about running the pipeline under the sea is from writings I saw out of the corner of my eye. I do believe the Trump administration made every attempt to bully Germany and Europe into dropping the pipeline, and they resisted with equal temerity. And I agree if the American bullying is used as the sole reason for heating fuel shortages this winter it will not be true. But it will be one reason.

Remember when Obama was in office and put Biden in charge of Ukraine? Remember Russia threatening to invade Ukraine? Remember Biden's Quid Pro Quo in Ukraine? Remember Hunter Biden and Burisma? Remember Democrats throwing a fit about Trump's phone call asking for investigations into Biden? Remember Russian Collusion, how nothing proved any connection to Trump and everything came back connected to Hillary? Remember Hillary's time as SOS under Obama? Notice how every time Russia is mentioned they never make connections to Democrat even though all the connection are there? Ever put a puzzle together? There are several pieces that come together that at least make it an interesting puzzle.
We do not have all the pieces to complete the picture, making it possible the final picture turns out differently but with what we have available and looks to be connectable, I find it strange no one in Washington or the MSM has any interest in looking any further to solve the puzzle.

 

[Ponca Dan]

Remember when Obama was in office and put Biden in charge of Ukraine? Remember Russia threatening to invade Ukraine? Remember Biden's Quid Pro Quo in Ukraine? Remember Hunter Biden and Burisma? Remember Democrats throwing a fit about Trump's phone call asking for investigations into Biden? Remember Russian Collusion, how nothing proved any connection to Trump and everything came back connected to Hillary? Remember Hillary's time as SOS under Obama? Notice how every time Russia is mentioned they never make connections to Democrat even though all the connection are there? Ever put a puzzle together? There are several pieces that come together that at least make it an interesting puzzle.
We do not have all the pieces to complete the picture, making it possible the final picture turns out differently but with what we have available and looks to be connectable, I find it strange no one in Washington or the MSM has any interest in looking any further to solve the puzzle.

All of that makes for a compelling case. But it ignores that the Trump administration did not want the pipeline, argued vociferously against it, made every attempt to bully and intimidate Germany into doing its bidding. I guess in politics you can't win them all, and Trump lost this one. And if there is a heating fuel shortage in Europe this winter the political powers-that-be will almost certainly point a finger at Trump and say it’s his fault.

 

[2012Bearcat]

All of that makes for a compelling case. But it ignores that the Trump administration did not want the pipeline, argued vociferously against it, made every attempt to bully and intimidate Germany into doing its bidding. I guess in politics you can't win them all, and Trump lost this one. And if there is a heating fuel shortage in Europe this winter the political powers-that-be will almost certainly point a finger at Trump and say it’s his fault.

It wasn't just Trump that didn't want the pipeline. This all centers around Ukraine and Putin's desires to swallow up Ukraine. You have to ask yourself why would Democrats and leaders in the EU side with Russia? Maybe I'm reading to much into all the connections but it doesn't begin to make sense that Democrats and the EU would want a weaker Ukraine and a stronger Russia unless their is corruption involved.

 

[AC2020]

"Everything woke goes to shit!"

 

[Scottsdale.Sooner]

First off its not oil running through the Nord Stream Pipeline. It's natural gas. Years ago Russia, Ukraine and the EU made a deal to buy gas from Russia with the condition that it would pass through Ukraine (Burisma). Ukraine collected and sold over $7 billion is gas to the EU but failed the pay Russia for the gas. Gazprom elected to build twin 48" gas pipelines through the Baltic Sea, Nord Stream One. This was 51% Gazprom and 49% European JV managed by Germany (mostly east Germans). To appease the West, Germany was the financial administrator and Gazprom was the technical administrator of Nord Stream, based in Zug, Switzerland. Russia needed western expertise in subsea pipelines and Germany could better attract the contractors, Ukraine was cut out of the deal and EU was happy about it. Ukraine were incapable of keeping the gas valves open and maintained. Joe Biden was for sale. He planted Hunter in Burisma and then turned up the political heat to shutdown Nord Stream. Nord Stream One was completed and commissioned but Nord Stream 2 was being developed. I am a conservative Republican but not necessarily a blind supporter of Trump. As a person I despise Trump but acknowledge that he did some good things for the economy and the country as whole. The USA meddling is the root cause of the problems surrounding this pipeline project. Nord Stream was not effected by the sanctions. They gained the expertise and bought the equipment to complete NS2. The sanctions allowed Nord Stream to hold over $800 million owed to American contractors. Biden lifted the sanction because he no longer had a grip on Ukraine. Hunter was out and pressure to get paid by US contractors mounted. Putin does not want to swallow up Ukraine. He wants to punish them. They are the deviant child that declared their complete independence once they got the attention of the west (Biden and his corrupt intentions). Don't be fooled by what you read or hear in the press. Eastern Ukraine and Crimea are very pro-Russia. Putin wants western Ukraine on their knees and taking the theft of Russian gas from them was a giant step. Nord Stream - Gazprom (Russia) won this battle and won the gas supply war.

 

[aix_xpert]

All of that makes for a compelling case. But it ignores that the Trump administration did not want the pipeline, argued vociferously against it, made every attempt to bully and intimidate Germany into doing its bidding. I guess in politics you can't win them all, and Trump lost this one. And if there is a heating fuel shortage in Europe this winter the political powers-that-be will almost certainly point a finger at Trump and say it’s his fault.

This is correct. Contrary to popular belief, Trump didn't bow to Russia like the Dems do. Trump believed in NATO and tried to get the NATO allies to support each other rather than creating a dependency on Russia (the country that NATO supposedly is against). But Dems don't care about that. What ever gets them a donation to their favored foundations. So now Germany and other NATO states are dependent upon Russia for their heating oil. What kind of voice do you think Germany will have if Russia decides to pull another Crimea? Would they risk their heating oil supplies to stand up to Russian aggression in the Ukraine or elsewhere?

 

[Scottsdale.Sooner]

Trump just wanted Germany and Europe to purchase Oil from their NATO allies. You also said attempt - did it actually happen?

We are talking GAS not oil. The popular message was the USA could supply the gas by LNG imports. The problem with this is LNG requires a specific receiving terminal. Germany has not and will not build an LNG receiving terminal when they can buy pressurized piped gas. Who, in your opinion would be the NATO allies selling oil to Germany? Norway? Germany buys oil from Norway, UK and Denmark.

 

[Scottsdale.Sooner]

This is correct. Contrary to popular belief, Trump didn't bow to Russia like the Dems do. Trump believed in NATO and tried to get the NATO allies to support each other rather than creating a dependency on Russia (the country that NATO supposedly is against). But Dems don't care about that. What ever gets them a donation to their favored foundations. So now Germany and other NATO states are dependent upon Russia for their heating oil. What kind of voice do you think Germany will have if Russia decides to pull another Crimea? Would they risk their heating oil supplies to stand up to Russian aggression in the Ukraine or elsewhere?

Heating oil? You need to educate yourself. It is natural gas. Your analogy could not be more wrong. Trump was stupid to press USA LNG sales to the EU when northern EU cannot receive LNG. Who in the EU is going to provide enough natural gas? You talk as if heating homes is the primary concern. What do you think fires their electrical power generation? Gas supplies to EU through Ukraine is far more risky than Russia. Middle men are not required.

 

[aix_xpert]

Heating oil? You need to educate yourself. It is natural gas. Your analogy could not be more wrong. Trump was stupid to press USA LNG sales to the EU when northern EU cannot receive LNG. Who in the EU is going to provide enough natural gas? You talk as if heating homes is the primary concern. What do you think fires their electrical power generation? Gas supplies to EU through Ukraine is far more risky than Russia. Middle men are not required.

Sorry, I screwed up Heating Oil vs. LNG. But the premise is still the same. What's the point of NATO if the countries involved create critical infrastructure dependencies with the enemy that NATO is supposedly defending against?

 

[Ponca Dan]

Sorry, I screwed up Heating Oil vs. LNG. But the premise is still the same. What's the point of NATO if the countries involved create critical infrastructure dependencies with the enemy that NATO is supposedly defending against?

I think Donald Trump was essentially correct when he first became president and said NATO is useless.

 

[Scottsdale.Sooner]

I think Donald Trump was essentially correct when he first became president and said NATO is useless.

Absolutely correct. NATO serves no purpose. Russia is not the threat that our military machine wants us to believe. Keep in mind that all of our military flag officers needs an enemy to keep their jobs. The military machine needs to produce arms to stay profitable. NATO is a huge drain on the USA. Why do you think the EU members disregard payments? They see NATO as a bad investment. Biden has now given them pause to rely on the US for anything.

 

[2012Bearcat]

This is correct. Contrary to popular belief, Trump didn't bow to Russia like the Dems do. Trump believed in NATO and tried to get the NATO allies to support each other rather than creating a dependency on Russia (the country that NATO supposedly is against). But Dems don't care about that. What ever gets them a donation to their favored foundations. So now Germany and other NATO states are dependent upon Russia for their heating oil. What kind of voice do you think Germany will have if Russia decides to pull another Crimea? Would they risk their heating oil supplies to stand up to Russian aggression in the Ukraine or elsewhere?

It's almost like, no exactly like you understand geopolitics.

 

[windriverrange]

PD, offshore barges run for about $200K an hour and up. Good thing about NG lines is they generally aren't internally coated, unless your looking for flow control. Its a quicker process than internally coated offshore pipelines especially S-Lay (shallow water). I'm not sure whether any of NS2 was/had any J-Lay or not but that also tacks on expenses per hour if so.

My beef about this, is if Germany wants to buy Russian LNG/NG so be it. Then they can pay the dam russians to defend their soil as well. Pull all the US military presence out and stick it somewhere more strategic (Poland maybe).

All that said...hope those green energy commie supporting fools freeze their asses off this winter. Maybe they can figure a way to bake and eat those made in china turbine blades or burn them in fireplaces.

 

[Ponca Dan]

PD, offshore barges run for about $200K an hour and up. Good thing about NG lines is they generally aren't internally coated, unless your looking for flow control. Its a quicker process than internally coated offshore pipelines especially S-Lay (shallow water). I'm not sure whether any of NS2 was/had any J-Lay or not but that also tacks on expenses per hour if so.

My beef about this, is if Germany wants to buy Russian LNG/NG so be it. Then they can pay the dam russians to defend their soil as well. Pull all the US military presence out and stick it somewhere more strategic (Poland maybe).

All that said...hope those green energy commie supporting fools freeze their asses off this winter. Maybe they can figure a way to bake and eat those made in china turbine blades or burn them in fireplaces.

I am in 100% agreement with your 2nd paragraph. About 75% on your 3rd.

 

[Scottsdale.Sooner]

PD, offshore barges run for about $200K an hour and up. Good thing about NG lines is they generally aren't internally coated, unless your looking for flow control. Its a quicker process than internally coated offshore pipelines especially S-Lay (shallow water). I'm not sure whether any of NS2 was/had any J-Lay or not but that also tacks on expenses per hour if so.

My beef about this, is if Germany wants to buy Russian LNG/NG so be it. Then they can pay the dam russians to defend their soil as well. Pull all the US military presence out and stick it somewhere more strategic (Poland maybe).

All that said...hope those green energy commie supporting fools freeze their asses off this winter. Maybe they can figure a way to bake and eat those made in china turbine blades or burn them in fireplaces.

Saipem's Castoro Sei (Six) installed NS1 by S-lay process. Large diameter offshore gas pipelines are normally not ID coated. It's more to do with pigging process than friction issues. Allseas Solitaire laid NS2 by S-lay before the USA pushed them off the job. The Russians bought a pipelay vessel Akademik Cherskiy to complete the last portion of the project which was basically the shore approach. Russians (Gazprom) are selling the gas to Nord Stream at Vyborg metering station. Germany, Austria,French and Italy own 49% of Nord Stream and 49% of the gas at that point. The original plan was Russia would own the gas to Germany and Nord Stream would charge a throughput but the price matrix was never agreed. Wintershall, E-On and Partners buys the gas at the Sassnitz delivery point. I could be wrong but I don't think Russia is interested in a European presence. Certainly not a military presence. They have hostile borders that keeps them busy. Poland has been a full member of NATO since 1999 so no change in position and will purchase gas delivered through NS1 and NS2. The EU will have plenty of gas. Alarmist articles like this is a pre-alert to higher prices. The EU buys North African gas thru the Trans-Med pipeline landing in Sicily and onto Italy. There will soon be a gas pipeline from Algeria into Spain.

 

[Scottsdale.Sooner]

They ran a new pipeline to hurt Ukraine not because of American interference, that is a ruse. Think about it, is it easier and less costly to run a pipeline on land or under an ocean? Oh and it will be an excuse that will only be bought by those that don't know any better.

The pipeline was subsea because it would have been impossible to secure pipeline right-of-way through so many countries east or west routes. Much of the Russian pipelines were concrete coated in Finland to secure access through their waters. They ran a pipeline in order to cut out a bad middle man and get gas to the end user. In the case of Nord Stream 1 & 2 the offshore was considered cheaper and possible. Landline was considered impossible because it could not be cost estimated due to uncertain licensing and regulatory issues through each country. The outcome would have been worse than the Ukraine route.

I worked on Nord Stream 1 & 2. In St. Petersburg and then Zug, Switzerland with Gazprom. I assisted now retired, Sergey Serdyukov, Technical Director, Nord Stream. I also worked on Blue Stream in Black Sea (J-Lay).