Earthquakes and suing oil companies

[kjcba8101]

to all our attorneys out there, what's the status on Oklahomans suing oil companies in regards to the man made earthquakes?

After the big one tonight, I hope a few companies do get sued. I'm about tired of them and I feel the only way to make the quakes stop is to sue a few of the perps.

 

[Colorado_Poke]

to all our attorneys out there, what's the status on Oklahomans suing oil companies in regards to the man made earthquakes?

After the big one tonight, I hope a few companies do get sued. I'm about tired of them and I feel the only way to make the quakes stop is to sue a few of the perps.

The problem becomes how do you prove which specific disposal wells are causing which quakes? The most logical solution, to me, is Oklahoma should raise its severance tax and reserve some of the extra proceeds for earthquake damage since most OK residents aren't allowed to buy earthquake insurance. But we both know that'll never happen with the legislature and governor there.

 

[TPOKE]

to all our attorneys out there, what's the status on Oklahomans suing oil companies in regards to the man made earthquakes?

After the big one tonight, I hope a few companies do get sued. I'm about tired of them and I feel the only way to make the quakes stop is to sue a few of the perps.

Suing oil companies will stop the earthquakes? Earth shattering.

 

[kjcba8101]

Suing oil companies will stop the earthquakes? Earth shattering.

Turn up the pain. My problem with them is this-

We know the quakes are man made.
We know that to some degree it is damaging properties we own. To what degree is hard to say and that's the sticking point.

These companies are allowed to profit using practices that detract from my net worth. For that, I feel they should be held accountable.

 

[CowboyJD]

Turn up the pain. My problem with them is this-

We know the quakes are man made.
We know that to some degree it is damaging properties we own. To what degree is hard to say and that's the sticking point.

These companies are allowed to profit using practices that detract from my net worth. For that, I feel they should be held accountable.

Good luck with that.

 

[long-duc-dong]

to all our attorneys out there, what's the status on Oklahomans suing oil companies in regards to the man made earthquakes?

After the big one tonight, I hope a few companies do get sued. I'm about tired of them and I feel the only way to make the quakes stop is to sue a few of the perps.

We are being sued.

 

[EvilPOKES]

There is a bunch of fault lines across Oklahoma...so??

 

[kjcba8101]

We are being sued.

I knew there were some lawsuits. Have they modified the saltwater injection process as a result?

 

[long-duc-dong]

I knew there were some lawsuits. Have they modified the saltwater injection process as a result?

Not the process but two of our injection wells are 15 miles away from the epicenter of the Edmond quake a year ago and they asked us to reduce our volumes by 40%.

 

[kjcba8101]

I see. It seems that the State of OK is so desperate for revenue right now that they don't want to sink the oil companies. As bad as oil is it's a terrible time to be having this conversation. I'm not a geologist so I might be asking a dumb question-does a 40% reduction have any impact on the issues at stake?

 

[long-duc-dong]

I see. It seems that the State of OK is so desperate for revenue right now that they don't want to sink the oil companies. As bad as oil is it's a terrible time to be having this conversation. I'm not a geologist so I might be asking a dumb question-does a 40% reduction have any impact on the issues at stake?

I'm not a geologist either so whether or not the reductions are having an impact is hard to tell. We did go for quite some time, after the reductions, without any big quakes but they have returned so I don't know what they'll ask for next.

 

[SquinkY5786]

Turn up the pain. My problem with them is this-

These companies are allowed to profit using practices that detract from my net worth. For that, I feel they should be held accountable.

Thats the way of the United States.

 

[Dally1up]

I think we just need to run these big oil companies out! It's not like our state or our schools get anything out of it, nor are people blessed with jobs or rural infrastructure because of them. And royalty owners are stingy by nature anyway and wouldn't dare spend some dollars in a local community or give to a charitable church or non-profit in the area.

 

[kjcba8101]

I think we just need to run these big oil companies out! It's not like our state or our schools get anything out of it, nor are people blessed with jobs or rural infrastructure because of them. And royalty owners are stingy by nature anyway and wouldn't dare spend some dollars in a local community or give to a charitable church or non-profit in the area.

I have no problem with them producing oil and generating tax revenue, jobs, etc. You're making a lot of assumptions there. I have a problem with you injecting saltwater with 1000 HP engines into formations and rocking the crap out of my home to the point my 3 year old is crying and throwing a fit because the 5.3 magnitude earthquake is rattling off. I hope you can see the difference here.

 

[Dally1up]

I have no problem with them producing oil and generating tax revenue, jobs, etc. You're making a lot of assumptions there. I have a problem with you injecting saltwater with 1000 HP engines into formations and rocking the crap out of my home to the point my 3 year old is crying and throwing a fit because the 5.3 magnitude earthquake is rattling off. I hope you can see the difference here.

There is always other States.

 

[kjcba8101]

There is always other States.

You're implying that operators have a right to inject saltwater into formations causing property damage to residential and commercial property? I just wanted to be sure I understood your proposal.

 

[CowboyJD]

I think his proposal was...."There are always other states."

 

[NeekReevers]

Someone very easily could have been killed in Cushing last night. It's just a matter of time before it happens. I will tell you after going through that one last night that public sentiment is going to turn very quickly and very harshly against the oil companies if this keeps happening. Most of the Oklahoma earthquakes have been jokes. 5.3 in Pawnee and 5.0 in Cushing are not jokes.

 

[kjcba8101]

I think his proposal was...."There are always other states."

Other states for operating large injection pumps?

 

[davidallen]

We are being sued.

Your incident at Little Darlings has nothing to do with these earthquakes...

 

[davidallen]

Someone very easily could have been killed in Cushing last night. It's just a matter of time before it happens. I will tell you after going through that one last night that public sentiment is going to turn very quickly and very harshly against the oil companies if this keeps happening. Most of the Oklahoma earthquakes have been jokes. 5.3 in Pawnee and 5.0 in Cushing are not jokes.

We are assessing the damage to our building in downtown Cushing. Not good for sale value...

 

[tcpoke]

I have no problem with them producing oil and generating tax revenue, jobs, etc. You're making a lot of assumptions there. I have a problem with you injecting saltwater with 1000 HP engines into formations and rocking the crap out of my home to the point my 3 year old is crying and throwing a fit because the 5.3 magnitude earthquake is rattling off. I hope you can see the difference here.

Maybe a little bit of exaggeration here? I have a 3 year (and a 7 year old) and live in the Tulsa area as well. Not only did no one cry, not one of the four of us (wife as well) even felt the damn thing.

This idea/fear of widespread damage is still very premature in my opinion. Older building (like what were damaged in Pawnee and Cushing) are much more susceptible due to their rigid construction (and somewhat age). Because so much of OK is built utilizing wood frame construction, severe damage isn't as likely due to the forgiving/flexible properties of lumber.

I'm not saying it is something that should just be ignored, but if you are really that worried about it then I would recommend not looking at statistical information on traffic accidents.

 

[Dally1up]

Maybe a little bit of exaggeration here? I have a 3 year (and a 7 year old) and live in the Tulsa area as well. Not only did no one cry, not one of the four of us (wife as well) even felt the damn thing.

This idea/fear of widespread damage is still very premature in my opinion. Older building (like what were damaged in Pawnee and Cushing) are much more susceptible due to their rigid construction (and somewhat age). Because so much of OK is built utilizing wood frame construction, severe damage isn't as likely due to the forgiving/flexible properties of lumber.

I'm not saying it is something that should just be ignored, but if you are really that worried about it then I would recommend not looking at statistical information on traffic accidents.

The buildings with damage that I saw the drama news crews zoom in on looked like they could use a little cleansing of the bricks and the buildings were destined for ruin/repair. The earthquake just helped it a little.

 

[JonnyVito]

People are going to die from these small quakes? Holy crap some of you are drama llamas. Your kid was crying so you need to sue GTFO. weak sauce.

 

[NeekReevers]

One of the buildings damaged in Cushing was the Cushing Citizen (newspaper) building. The owner spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on that building restoring it and turning the 2nd floor into a beautiful living space. Another building damaged was the Carmike Dunkin Theater. I have a good friend that was watching Dr. Strange at the time and saw a portion of the roof cave in to the auditorium. My guess is the days of Cushing having a movie theater are over.

i promise you no one in Cushing has the same attitude toward earthquakes today as they did yesterday and we've had more than most other communities in OK. I'm telling you, this one was different...it put fear into people.

@davidallen sorry to hear about your building. I hope the damage wasn't too extensive.

 

[davidallen]

One of the buildings damaged in Cushing was the Cushing Citizen (newspaper) building. The owner spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on that building restoring it and turning the 2nd floor into a beautiful living space. Another building damaged was the Carmike Dunkin Theater. I have a good friend that was watching Dr. Strange at the time and saw a portion of the roof cave in to the auditorium. My guess is the days of Cushing having a movie theater are over.

i promise you no one in Cushing has the same attitude toward earthquakes today as they did yesterday and we've had more than most other communities in OK. I'm telling you, this one was different...it put fear into people.

@davidallen sorry to hear about your building. I hope the damage wasn't too extensive.

We are trying to get Steve Spears in to take a look tomorrow and see where we are. Were hoping to get it on the market before the new year, but will see now...

Ah, the Dunkin, spent many an evening in there. Will be missed in our little home town.

 

[kjcba8101]

People are going to die from these small quakes? Holy crap some of you are drama llamas. Your kid was crying so you need to sue GTFO. weak sauce.

I wouldn't sue anyone because my daughter was crying. I'd sue you because your business practices did monetary damage to my home. That's why we sue people, no? To your point-should oil companies be allowed to dump saltwater into lakes and rivers and kill wildlife? Make a valid arguement fellas. Telling someone to gtfo with their weak sauce is pretty elementary.

 

[CowboyJD]

Other states for operating large injection pumps?

I'm suggesting you jumped way in the middle of a strawman by interpreting his five words as him "implying" that oil companies have the right to do whatever you rattled on about.

I'm not gonna assume what he meant, but based upon his subsequent posts in the thread, my guess is that it was a very succinct way of calling you a bit of a drama queen and that you could always move.

I could be wrong though. What say you @Dally1up ?

 

[CowboyJD]

I wouldn't sue anyone because my daughter was crying. I'd sue you because your business practices did monetary damage to my home. That's why we sue people, no? To your point-should oil companies be allowed to dump saltwater into lakes and rivers and kill wildlife? Make a valid arguement fellas. Telling someone to gtfo with their weak sauce is pretty elementary.

Less talk about suing, more action suing.

Again, good luck with that.

 

[long-duc-dong]

To your point-should oil companies be allowed to dump saltwater into lakes and rivers and kill wildlife?

Of course they shouldn't be allowed to and they're not. I don't see where this has any relevance to the earthquake problem. Two totally different things.

 

[davidallen]

Of course they shouldn't be allowed to and they're not. I don't see where this has any relevance to the earthquake problem. Two totally different things.

I do wonder if it reaches a point where with fore-knowledge these wells are causing quakes that the companies collectively may be liable for damage. Likely early in that process, and one would hope when there is sufficient clarity on the relationship between disposal wells and quakes that regulation would kick in to limit the damage... Though it is Oklahoma so wouldn't hold my breath on that last bit.

 

[long-duc-dong]

I do wonder if it reaches a point where with fore-knowledge these wells are causing quakes that the companies collectively may be liable for damage. Likely early in that process, and one would hope when there is sufficient clarity on the relationship between disposal wells and quakes that regulation would kick in to limit the damage... Though it is Oklahoma so wouldn't hold my breath on that last bit.

The regulation has already started to kick in, sort of. Most everything the occ has put in place is voluntary with the exception of the wells within six miles of the bigger quake epicenters. Those wells are under mandatory shut in orders. That's pretty regulated if you ask me. I know what your getting at, and I think you'll see a tightening of the already regulated industry going forward. And by the way I'm way better than little darlings. That hurt.

 

[lovethempokes]

So I guess the people in Italy should go after whom for their quakes? What are the chances that our quakes are merely due to increased seismic activity around the world. I'm not giving oil companies a pass but geez let's not throw the baby out with the bath water.

 

[Dally1up]

You are correct JD!

 

[cowboys4013]

So I guess the people in Italy should go after whom for their quakes? What are the chances that our quakes are merely due to increased seismic activity around the world.

Lol.
This is a joke, right?

 

[JonnyVito]

So did injection wells cause the Meers fault?

 

[tcpoke]

So did injection wells cause the Meers fault?

Vito you do realize that 90+% of Oklahoma's earthquakes happen in parts of the state with the fewest and smallest fault lines don't you?

An earthquake can only take place if there is a fault line. There is no debating that. However the fact that areas where these events continue to occur are not the areas with the highest naturally occurring propensity for an earthquake in the state, but are centered around the highest population of injection wells, is what is concerning.

No one contends that injection wells cause fault lines (or if they do they are grossly misinformed). The idea is that these fault lines that were once viewed as seemingly insignificant are not bizarrely active. I'm not going to say that it is 100% the result of the injection wells lubricating these fault lines, but that is what I believe. Scientifically it just makes too much sense to ignore.

 

[JonnyVito]

Vito you do realize that 90+% of Oklahoma's earthquakes happen in parts of the state with the fewest and smallest fault lines don't you?

An earthquake can only take place if there is a fault line. There is no debating that. However the fact that areas where these events continue to occur are not the areas with the highest naturally occurring propensity for an earthquake in the state, but are centered around the highest population of injection wells, is what is concerning.

No one contends that injection wells cause fault lines (or if they do they are grossly misinformed). The idea is that these fault lines that were once viewed as seemingly insignificant are not bizarrely active. I'm not going to say that it is 100% the result of the injection wells lubricating these fault lines, but that is what I believe. Scientifically it just makes too much sense to ignore.

I am just saying that earthquakes happen in all 50 states. I believe that this isn't all injections wells. I think seismic activity has picked up across the world and maybe this isn't all on injection wells. I think the science isn't there and post like the original where people are looking for the oil and gas companies to just pay up are short sighted. Everyone should carry earthquakes insurance on your home. In mid America quakes can range across several states not just locally. Carry an earthquake policy or if you don't like them then push for legislation towards insurance companies to make sure the policies they offer will actually cover the loss.

 

[kjcba8101]

I am just saying that earthquakes happen in all 50 states. I believe that this isn't all injections wells. I think seismic activity has picked up across the world and maybe this isn't all on injection wells. I think the science isn't there and post like the original where people are looking for the oil and gas companies to just pay up are short sighted. Everyone should carry earthquakes insurance on your home. In mid America quakes can range across several states not just locally. Carry an earthquake policy or if you don't like them then push for legislation towards insurance companies to make sure the policies they offer will actually cover the loss.

Question-does earthquake insurance (in OK) cover earthquakes in a situation where the quake will be argued to have been man made? I'm sure the insurance co can and will argue that the quakes are not a natural result (based on historical trends). Maybe someone with some insurance/legal experience can enlighten us on this matter.

 

[JonnyVito]

Question-does earthquake insurance (in OK) cover earthquakes in a situation where the quake will be argued to have been man made? I'm sure the insurance co can and will argue that the quakes are not a natural result (based on historical trends). Maybe someone with some insurance/legal experience can enlighten us on this matter.

They will pay but what gets you is the the exclusions on the earthquake insurance. With these types of quakes mainly the brick or stone mason will fall off or crack. A lot of the policies don't cover this or they have a really high deductible. This is why I wish more people complained about the insurance companies way they write these, then just get mad at oil and gas companies. They need to put something in place like a CEA I think it is what it is called in Cali. I think going this way protects the home owner better then trying to win a case in court. This is going to be a bigger deal in the future IMO and just hoping to get a pay out from oil and gas companies won't insure that your home is fixed. They could go belly up and then what does that do for the home owner if they are never paid.

What if Kansas starts allowing massive injection wells and they protect the O&G companies. A quake happens and it does a bunch of damage in Oklahoma because they can be felt across states in this part of the country but you aren't allowed to sue. I would like to see a better plan put in place to protect the residents of Oklahoma then just leave it up to winning in court. Just my two cents.