DIR of WTO Severely Overstated the Fatality Rate of the Coronavirus

[windriverrange]

EXCLUSIVE: Evidence Shows Director General of World Health Organization Severely Overstated the Fatality Rate of the Coronavirus Leading to the Greatest Global Panic in History

The controversial Ethiopian politician and Director General of the World Health Organization (WHO), Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, claimed in a press conference in early March that the fatality rate for the coronavirus was many multiples that of the fatality rate of the common flu.
This egregiously false premise has led to the greatest panic in world history.
The Director General of the WHO spoke on March 3, 2020 and shared this related to the coronavirus:

While many people globally have built up immunity to seasonal flu strains, COVID-19 is a new virus to which no one has immunity. That means more people are susceptible to infection, and some will suffer severe disease.

Globally, about 3.4% of reported COVID-19 cases have died. By comparison, seasonal flu generally kills far fewer than 1% of those infected.

This statement led to the greatest panic in world history as the media all over the world shared and repeated that the coronavirus was many, many times more deadly than the common flu.

The problem is his statement is false. It was not accurate!
The Gateway Pundit reported yesterday, that the coronavirus fatality rate reported by the media was completely inaccurate and the actual rate is less than the current seasonal flu – the media was lying again. The false reporting of the coronavirus fatality rate of 3.4% in the media started with the statements made by the WHO in early March.

Here’s a summary of the analysis from yesterday proving the Director General’s statement was very misleading and materially false:

N/A – not available

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

1. The fatality rate of the coronavirus was based on current data available of known positive cases and known deaths.
Oftentimes estimates have to be made because data is just not yet available. The Director General of the World Health Organization (WHO), Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, used the fatality rate of coronavirus with known numbers and used this as his prediction of eventual mortality rate. This was a faulty assumption. Estimates usually involve obtaining information that is available and making estimates on what is not. We cannot tell the future but we can make educated guesses based on information available. This is what has been done with the coronavirus because this type of virus has apparently never been seen before.

2. Sometimes estimates are reasonable and sometimes they are wrong, and even way off.
The point is that whenever estimates are made of large unknown values they are always wrong because no one can tell the future. Sometimes estimates end up close and sometimes they are not and sometimes they are way off.

3. The current “estimate” for the coronavirus fatality rate according to the WHO is about 3.4%.
The estimate used most often is from the WHO based on the Director General’s comments. The WHO estimates the mortality rate of the coronavirus to be around 3.4%:

The World Health Organization (WHO) has estimated the mortality rate from Covid-19 is about 3.4%. That is higher than seasonal flu and is cause for concern – but even if it is correct, more than 96% of people who become infected with the coronavirus will recover.

4. The same rate for this year’s seasonal flu is 10% if you use known cases and known deaths (but the media tells you it’s .1%).
As The Gateway Pundit reported earlier, according to CDC numbers, in the US in the 2019-2020 flu season, there were 222,552 confirmed cases of the flu from testing and an estimated 36 million flu cases in the United States. There were 22,000 estimated deaths from the flu (via the CDC).

Note that the number of deaths and confirmed cases (through testing) of the flu in the US are based on actual data. The number of individuals who contracted the flu is an estimate. There is no way to know who had the flu in the US because many cases are not severe and people do not have a test done to confirm they had the flu. They believe their symptoms are minor and go on with their normal lives thinking they had a cold or something similar. Because of this, the CDC estimates and they estimated 36 million people had the flu in this past flu season.

The rate of the number of individuals who died from the flu to the number of individuals who were estimated to have had the flu is .1% (22,552 / 36 million). This is an estimate and the amount used above by the Director General of the WHO.

However, the rate of individuals who died from the flu to the number of individuals who were confirmed to have had the flu is around 10% (22,000/ 222,552). This is based on actual data similar to the rate for the coronavirus above.

5. Actual results for the coronavirus are lower than the flu.
Based on the above numbers, the actual fatality rate for those who were confirmed to have had the coronavirus is 3.4%.
The actual mortality rates for those who were confirmed to have had the flu are around 10%.

The actual data shows that the mortality rate for those who had the flu (10%) is almost twice as high than for those with the coronavirus (3.8%).

6. Current estimates between the flu and the coronavirus are not comparing ‘apples to apples’.
The fatality rate that is commonly referred to in the media for the coronavirus is 3.4% from the WHO. This number is based on confirmed cases of people with the coronavirus.

The flu fatality rate provided by the CDC of .1% includes an estimate of individuals who had the flu (36,000,000). This rate includes an estimate of all people with the flu, most who were not tested for the flu.

The fatality rate for the coronavirus does not include those who had the coronavirus but were not confirmed. This is why the flu fatality rate is .1% and the coronavirus fatality rate is 3.4%!

The two rates are like comparing apples to oranges. By doing so the coronavirus fatality rate is way overstated when compared to the flu and the WHO and the media has created a worldwide crisis and panic by reporting these rates simultaneously!

The coronavirus is not more fatal than the flu based on current data available. It is much less fatal than the flu based on current data.

7. Those most at risk from the coronavirus are the elderly and sick (similar to the flu).
Similar to the flu, those most at risk of dying from the coronavirus are the elderly and the sick. The average age for those who died from the coronavirus in Italy is 81 years old. This is consistent around the world. There have been no known fatalities for any children 10 and under.

The sick are also at a higher risk similar to the flu. Current data shows that if you have no pre-existing conditions, your fatality rate if you contract the coronavirus is .9% (and what proportion of these cases are the elderly).

In summary, President Trump was right when he said the WHO’s coronavirus fatality rate was much too high.
Evidence proves the coronavirus is not as deadly as what was reported by the WHO and is continually repeated in the media.
In fact, current data shows it is not as deadly as the flu. The elderly and the sick should be concerned and protected. Everyone else has little to worry about.
Again, don’t believe what the media is telling you. They are lying again.



This deal is starting to remind me of people who speak out against Global Warming. "Conventional Wisdom" is developed and promulgated by the media/politicians with a political axe to grind and who subsequently use their bias and power to beat dissenters down.

 

[launch]

Can we not just wait until we have real facts and some clear understanding of them before we do this? We are still waiting on enough accurate test kits.

 

[windriverrange]

Can we not just wait until we have real facts and some clear understanding of them before we do this? We are still waiting on enough accurate test kits.

launch, I'd be all for that....but based on the current and established narrative there has to be a metric to either confirm or dispute the current herd think. I believe that the dangers for a certain subset of humans is real, the rest is simply an over reaction and has become more of an exercise about avoiding liability than anything else.

I generally hold to the premise that if nearly everyone in a certain profession or political party is crying "wolf" then it is less about the actual message and more about subterfuge for political purposes. Since the WHO is connected to the UN, it is almost without doubt (in my mind at least) about denigrating anyone who dares question their narrative and a justification for the subsequent requests of more monies which will come shortly and be disproportionately underwritten by the US.

I still stand by my previous statement thought that this deal will kill less than 10,000 Americans (no way shape or form marginalizing the deaths either...consider that 30 deaths are from the same nursing home in WA), the section of society that is a vector only and will never show symptoms is vastly under represented in the numbers and this will morph into a political campaign theme on steroids in the coming months.

 

[Rdcldad]

launch, I'd be all for that....but based on the current and established narrative there has to be a metric to either confirm or dispute the current herd think. I believe that the dangers for a certain subset of humans is real, the rest is simply an over reaction and has become more of an exercise about avoiding liability than anything else.

I generally hold to the premise that if nearly everyone in a certain profession or political party is crying "wolf" then it is less about the actual message and more about subterfuge for political purposes. Since the WHO is connected to the UN, it is almost without doubt (in my mind at least) about denigrating anyone who dares question their narrative and a justification for the subsequent requests of more monies which will come shortly and be disproportionately underwritten by the US.

I still stand by my previous statement thought that this deal will kill less than 10,000 Americans (no way shape or form marginalizing the deaths either...consider that 30 deaths are from the same nursing home in WA), the section of society that is a vector only and will never show symptoms is vastly under represented in the numbers and this will morph into a political campaign theme on steroids in the coming months.

real talk

some ethiopian on the take turned the entire country into gary england tornado watchers

not the little blow the roof off the old tin barn tornados

the if youre not underground you will die F5
tornado watchers

 

[Rdcldad]

Can we not just wait until we have real facts and some clear understanding of them before we do this? We are still waiting on enough accurate test kits.

always appreciate caution but let’s weigh
lives and businesses destroyed by this hoax

KD is walking around asymptomatic
WTF is that?

 

[imprimis]

The unfortunate thing is the media and others will expect this type of herd mentality global reaction for future respiratory diseases.

 

[Been Jammin]

Two scenarios to choose from.

A. Not cautious enough. Leading to a situation like Italy. Where Drs are having to make choices as to which patients live and die because they only have X amount of ventilators.

B. Overly cautious. Leading to dumbasses complaining that people are panicking and being dishonest, but significantly fewer deaths due to this disease.

If you underestimate the impact of the pandemic, you are accused of being negligent and of being responsible for a significant number of unnecessary fatalities.

If you overestimate the impact of the pandemic, you are accused of being paranoid, and of causing a huge number of people a lot of inconvenience.

It isn't a tough choice.

p.s. Did I mention Italy?

 

[long-duc-dong]

Two scenarios to choose from.

A. Not cautious enough. Leading to a situation like Italy. Where Drs are having to make choices as to which patients live and die because they only have X amount of ventilators.

B. Overly cautious. Leading to dumbasses complaining that people are panicking and being dishonest, but significantly fewer deaths due to this disease.

If you underestimate the impact of the pandemic, you are accused of being negligent and of being responsible for a significant number of unnecessary fatalities.

If you overestimate the impact of the pandemic, you are accused of being paranoid, and of causing a huge number of people a lot of inconvenience.

It isn't a tough choice.

p.s. Did I mention Italy?

How about somewhere in the middle?

 

[Marshal Jim Duncan]

Two scenarios to choose from.

A. Not cautious enough. Leading to a situation like Italy. Where Drs are having to make choices as to which patients live and die because they only have X amount of ventilators.

B. Overly cautious. Leading to dumbasses complaining that people are panicking and being dishonest, but significantly fewer deaths due to this disease.

If you underestimate the impact of the pandemic, you are accused of being negligent and of being responsible for a significant number of unnecessary fatalities.

If you overestimate the impact of the pandemic, you are accused of being paranoid, and of causing a huge number of people a lot of inconvenience.

It isn't a tough choice.

p.s. Did I mention Italy?

Would it be an”inconvenience” if your Vet clinic was forced out of business or if you received no salary/income for 2-3 months? What about if it later transpired that there was pretty convincing evidence that many of the closings, etc. were, in fact, unnecessary?

 

[Been Jammin]

How about somewhere in the middle?

Oh, so you want the perfect amount of response. That should be really simple to determine.

Don't be dumb.

 

[Been Jammin]

Would it be an”inconvenience” if your Vet clinic was forced out of business or if you received no salary/income for 2-3 months? What about if it later transpired that there was pretty convincing evidence that many of the closings, etc. were, in fact, unnecessary?

Oh, so you want the perfect amount of response. That should be really simple to determine.

 

[long-duc-dong]

Oh, so you want the perfect amount of response. That should be really simple to determine.

Don't be dumb.

lol

 

[Alpha Woke]

Two scenarios to choose from.

A. Not cautious enough. Leading to a situation like Italy. Where Drs are having to make choices as to which patients live and die because they only have X amount of ventilators.

B. Overly cautious. Leading to dumbasses complaining that people are panicking and being dishonest, but significantly fewer deaths due to this disease.

If you underestimate the impact of the pandemic, you are accused of being negligent and of being responsible for a significant number of unnecessary fatalities.

If you overestimate the impact of the pandemic, you are accused of being paranoid, and of causing a huge number of people a lot of inconvenience.

It isn't a tough choice.

p.s. Did I mention Italy?

You have to err on the side of caution.

This isn’t political.

 

[long-duc-dong]

You have to err on the side of caution.

This isn’t political.

Caution is fine. Fear is f***ing stupid.

 

[Been Jammin]

Caution is fine. Fear is f***ing stupid.

OK. Don't be afraid while you do all you can to prevent spread of the virus. Flex all you want in the safety of your own home. I'm good with that.

 

[Alpha Woke]

Caution is fine. Fear is f***ing stupid.

Agree.

There’s a lot of fear mongering going on by the morons trying to politicize this, but there’s also morons downplaying what’s in front of us.

As usual, I’m left having to sort the wheat from the chaff.

 

[imprimis]

Would it be an”inconvenience” if your Vet clinic was forced out of business or if you received no salary/income for 2-3 months? What about if it later transpired that there was pretty convincing evidence that many of the closings, etc. were, in fact, unnecessary?

There was a doctor on TV this morning talking about NYC's De Blasio wanting to "shelter in place" everyone in NYC. MD said going to be difficult with so many dogs living in the buildings which need to be taken out. Conversely, he said dogs and other animals can harbor the virus on their fur and transport it out on the streets. Tells me they can also carry it to vet clinics then. I'm not advocating shutting down vet clinics but...

 

[jkosu]

Agree.

There’s a lot of fear mongering going on by the morons trying to politicize this, but there’s also morons downplaying what’s in front of us.

As usual, I’m left having to sort the wheat from the chaff.

Exactly - do I believe the idiots hoarding toilet paper and bottled water OR the idiots telling me that this is no big deal because some stat they found with no context or clear correlation says everything is going to be okay.

I’ll take precautions and then try to life my life normally. We’ll see how it all works out, I guess.

 

[Been Jammin]

Tells me they can also carry it to vet clinics then. I'm not advocating shutting down vet clinics but...

People can carry the virus into grocery stores, pharmacies and hospitals (on their clothes, or in their body). Should we close those places?

 

[purkey]

let's err on the right side...over is better than under right now.

 

[imprimis]

People can carry the virus into grocery stores, pharmacies and hospitals (on their clothes, or in their body). Should we close those places?

What's the difference in walking around a crowded grocery store for an hour versus sitting in a restaurant for an hour? Lots more people in grocery stores than restaurants.

 

[Marshal Jim Duncan]

Exactly - do I believe the idiots hoarding toilet paper and bottled water OR the idiots telling me that this is no big deal because some stat they found with no context or clear correlation says everything is going to be okay.

I’ll take precautions and then try to life my life normally. We’ll see how it all works out, I guess.

https://www.statnews.com/2020/03/17...e-are-making-decisions-without-reliable-data/

 

[Been Jammin]

What's the difference in walking around a crowded grocery store for an hour versus sitting in a restaurant for an hour? Lots more people in grocery stores than restaurants.

One is more of a necessity than the other. It's not rocket surgery.

 

[purkey]

https://www.statnews.com/2020/03/17...e-are-making-decisions-without-reliable-data/

everyone is speculating and estimating on the info at hand...like it's been said, it's still better to over than to under. It's still a fluid situation without great data for guidance. We don't know enough to have a firm position. I hope it's all over done and this thing simmers to a lot about not much...but, if I'm reading the signs I'd stay on track with being over saturated...for now anyway.

 

[Ostatedchi]

There was a doctor on TV this morning talking about NYC's De Blasio wanting to "shelter in place" everyone in NYC. MD said going to be difficult with so many dogs living in the buildings which need to be taken out. Conversely, he said dogs and other animals can harbor the virus on their fur and transport it out on the streets. Tells me they can also carry it to vet clinics then. I'm not advocating shutting down vet clinics but...

Out of an abundance of caution I think the president should mandate all vet clinics be shut down.

 

[MegaPoke]

People can carry the virus into grocery stores, pharmacies and hospitals (on their clothes, or in their body). Should we close those places?

I hope your biz is doing ok.

Im of the belief that the real danger here isn’t the current mortality rate, but the ability of the bug to rapidly mutate and humanity’s lack of baked in immunity- as we have with the flu.

I sincerely hope we have the luxury of looking back on this in a month and declaring we overreacted.

 

[Maxwell 8772]

Out of an abundance of caution I think the president should mandate all vet clinics be shut down.

I don’t know. Neutering Yorkies is of utmost national security.

 

[Been Jammin]

I hope your biz is doing ok.

So far so good.

It's crazy, but we've been exceptionally busy up until today. Today, we are not slow by any means. Just steady.

Some of it is people worrying that we are going to shut down and coming to load up on Rx diets or meds. Some of it is probably due to people thinking we are going to shut down and wanting to make sure that their pet gets what he/she needs while they can. I'm guessing that some of it is due to people spending more time at home with their pets and noticing issues they hadn't noticed, or finally having time to take care of things they haven't had time for.

 

[long-duc-dong]

OK. Don't be afraid while you do all you can to prevent spread of the virus. Flex all you want in the safety of your own home. I'm good with that.

I'm doing what I can to prevent the spread of the virus. I'm not at home doing it though. I'm out and about doing my job. My job doesn't allow for a day off. Again, caution is fine fear is f***ing stupid.

 

[Rdcldad]

 

[windriverrange]

Two scenarios to choose from.

A. Not cautious enough. Leading to a situation like Italy. Where Drs are having to make choices as to which patients live and die because they only have X amount of ventilators.

B. Overly cautious. Leading to dumbasses complaining that people are panicking and being dishonest, but significantly fewer deaths due to this disease.

If you underestimate the impact of the pandemic, you are accused of being negligent and of being responsible for a significant number of unnecessary fatalities.

If you overestimate the impact of the pandemic, you are accused of being paranoid, and of causing a huge number of people a lot of inconvenience.

It isn't a tough choice.

p.s. Did I mention Italy?

Why can't you be cautious, as proscribed, but also see this for what it is? The average age of people in Italy who have died is 81 yoa and I'm certain at sometime someone will boil down the numbers for a much clearer picture (https://www.wired.co.uk/article/coronavirus-italy). I don't believe we will ever know the true extent to which the correct percentages are quantified. What if the vast swath of people are simple vectors and never show a single sign/symptom of the virus? Then people sheltering in place, will be exposed 4 or 5 months from now barring an immunization protocol in the next 4 or 5 months. Will anyone ever be interested in the "real numbers" unless they fit the narrative they want?

My primary complaint is the manifest difference this virus has been treated than say versus the ex-rodent in chiefs response to H1N1 (https://pjmedia.com/trending/did-ob...res-what-media-fact-checks-arent-telling-you/) which originated in Mexico. Notice after reading the attached article and the medias angst vs what is occurring now. As soon as this turned into yet another political "we finally got him now" crusade it told you (or should have told you) everything you need to know. My second biggest complaint is that everyone trots out their own "expert" to echo the echo chamber. Why you should realize this as another effort by the media to tarnish Trumps reputation is all the things being repeated and attributed to Trump/administration by the media and left that have been debunked, even debunked by people that really don't like Trump.

In reality, Trump will never win this....he won't get credit for his decisive actions saving lives (close borders, not allow flights from certain areas, cut through red tape etc etc) and can be conveniently accused of absurd neglect once the weather warms up and the cases/deaths plummet. A man who's administration had the good fortune to have warm weather arrive which is what saved the world.

My mom is 85 and you can absolutely bet I always practice good hygiene when am going over there or there, as I do in public. Most of the things we are suddenly supposed to start practicing are things I've done all along. That said, I'll definitely take extra care out and about, but IMHO this is all about creating as much instability as possible for future political gain. The silver lining will be the retractions from this inane belief that Globalization is great! Want to protect your citizens, has to be done at the border, not in an ICU after the fact.

The whole this "Chinese Virus" or "Wuhan virus" designation being "racist" is another canard designed to shut people up....just like the global warming nuts try to do to people who call their bluff and refute their methodology. Not everyone has to march in lockstep with Trump/administration, nor support the guy but the constant bias and chicanery by those that viscerally hate the man is hurting all Americans and right now is a good time to at least consider other people fears/plight/impending losses of income other than oneself and err on the side of caution (as others have said in this thread). Like always crying racism or predicting a monster tornado event 10 days out......people will quit paying attention when there is a warranted emergency which will result in far more deaths.

 

[Alpha Woke]

View embedded media

This is the stuff that got away from the power structure.

Before cell cameras and the internet, you could lie like hell. We had no way to know.

 

[Been Jammin]

The average age of people in Italy who have died is 81 yoa

You do realize that a big reason for this is that they are out of ventilators and doctors are being forced to choose who gets one, right? They are basically letting the older patients die and saving the younger patients.

Not having enough ventilators is the ultimate concern right now. Everything that is being recommended is based around preventing that from happening.

I'm sure that POTUS might be getting a lot more credit for the good things he has done if he didn't start off by downplaying the possible seriousness of this turning into an actual pandemic.

 

[Marshal Jim Duncan]

You do realize that a big reason for this is that they are out of ventilators and doctors are being forced to choose who gets one, right? They are basically letting the older patients die and saving the younger patients.

Not having enough ventilators is the ultimate concern right now. Everything that is being recommended is based around preventing that from happening.

I'm sure that POTUS might be getting a lot more credit for the good things he has done if he didn't start off by downplaying the possible seriousness of this turning into an actual pandemic.

Whoa! Now wait just a minute. You’re telling me that the wondrous socialized healthcare system, combined with the super-competent administrative response of the Italian government, not to mention access to the magical EU, has left the Italian populace far short of the necessary medical equipment? How can this be?

 

[07pilt]

Whoa! Now wait just a minute. You’re telling me that the wondrous socialized healthcare system, combined with the super-competent administrative response of the Italian government, not to mention access to the magical EU, has left the Italian populace far short of the necessary medical equipment? How can this be?

 

[windriverrange]

You do realize that a big reason for this is that they are out of ventilators and doctors are being forced to choose who gets one, right? They are basically letting the older patients die and saving the younger patients.

Not having enough ventilators is the ultimate concern right now. Everything that is being recommended is based around preventing that from happening.

I'm sure that POTUS might be getting a lot more credit for the good things he has done if he didn't start off by downplaying the possible seriousness of this turning into an actual pandemic.

Been, I have consistently heard he downplayed this virus (and before it was considered a pandemic), here is the actual quote;
"The Democrats are politicizing the coronavirus," Trump said. "One of my people came up to me and said, 'Mr. President, they tried to beat you on Russia, Russia, Russia.' That did not work out too well. They could not do it. They tried the impeachment hoax. ... They tried anything. ... And this is their new hoax." In the context of everything the media/libs have done the past 3.3 years, I don't see this as downplaying the possible seriousness, but simply stating that it is yet another opportunists opportunity to try to hang him with enough weight that he never resurfaces and that is it!

Am not one of those people who worships everything the guy does or says, he has a highlight reel and a low light reel and has committed many unforced errors. That said he fights back and the media/libs that use to make ambiguous deals and watch R's roll over for a complimentary belly rub for agreeing to those deals, while subsequently watching their nut sacks get cut off were weak and that mentality is weak. He is definitely not "one of those guys," for which he is universally loathed by the media/libs and for that matter many of the weak R's; McCain, Romney, Kasich etc.

It sucks that the Italians are out of ventilators....where is the vaunted EU's support or for that matter individual nations support, say Germany, France etc? Is it normal for the medical field/governments to not plan ahead and make contingency plans for just such an event as this? Has the EU put together a comprehensive plan to allocate resources/ workers in case of a pandemic? One would think a organization of un-elected bureaucrats would have surly mandated provisions in the EU charter to help out their fellow members right?

An article from Snopes on 3/16/20;
What's True
Italian health care workers who are overwhelmed with COVID-19 cases could be faced with decisions about allocating limited life-saving treatment to those with the most likelihood to live longest upon survival.

What's False
However, Italy hasn't abandoned elderly patients to die. Instead, Italian health care workers, when faced with more patients than available equipment and capacity to treat them, may possibly be forced to prioritize treatment of those with the highest likelihood of surviving long-term.

"As the COVID-19 new coronavirus disease spread across the United States in early 2020, so did anxiety, as people looked to how the virus had affected Italy, already deep in the throes of the pandemic. A social media meme exacerbated the anxiety with the claim that Italian doctors had “decided NOT to treat the elderly,” and that that was the result of “socialized medicine.”

As of mid-March, Italy was the hardest-hit nation outside of Asia and had become the new epicenter for the global pandemic. As in China, where the virus was initially detected in the winter of 2019, the Italian health care system was overwhelmed by the disease. Amid fears that the United States could end up in a similar situation, a viral Facebook meme pointed the finger at Italy’s government-run health care system.
The meme appears to represent both an exaggeration and distortion of news reports and events in Italy regarding the coronavirus. Readers also inquired about an article published by the British news publication The Telegraph, headlined, “Italians over 80 ‘will be left to die’ as country overwhelmed by coronavirus.” The article references a document drawn up by health officials in Turin, a city in Northern Italy hit hard by the virus, with guidelines for if and when “It becomes impossible to provide all patients with intensive care service.” In such a case, the document says, “It will be necessary to apply criteria for access to intensive treatment, which depends on the limited resources available.”

The Telegraph reported that the document “produced by the civil protection department of the Piedmont region, one of those hardest hit, says: ‘The criteria for access to intensive therapy in cases of emergency must include age of less than 80 or a score on the Charlson comorbidity Index [which indicates how many other medical conditions the patient has] of less than 5.'”

The guidelines were expected to affect the whole country and go into effect, according to the Telegraph, “‘If the situation becomes of such an exceptional nature as to make the therapeutic choices on the individual case dependent on the availability of resources, forcing [hospitals] to focus on those cases in which the cost/benefit ratio is more favorable for clinical treatment.'”

In other words, it is not true that Italy as a whole had “decided not to treat their elderly” for the coronavirus. What is true per news reports is that overwhelmed Italian health systems that have more patients than available equipment could face “catastrophe” triage decisions not seen since World War II. That has nothing to do the fact that Italy, like other European countries, has a public health care system, or what some people call “socialized medicine.” It is instead the result of the sheer volume of cases flooding the hospitals.

As of March 12, 2020, The New York Times reported that Italian officials had maintained that everyone who needed care was entitled to it. In a public statement on the matter, Italian Prime Minister Giuseppe Conte stated, “We live in a system in which we guarantee health and the right of everyone to be cured. It’s a foundation, a pillar, and I’d say a characteristic of our system of civilization. And thus we can’t allow ourselves to let our guard down.”

The Times also reported that Flavia Petrini, president of the Italian College of Anesthesia, Analgesia, Resuscitation and Intensive Care, had issued “catastrophe medicine” guidelines:

“In a context of grave shortage of health resources,” the guidelines say, intensive care should be given to “patients with the best chance of success” and those with the “best hope of life” should be prioritized.

The guidelines also say that in “in the interests of maximizing benefits for the largest number,” limits could be put on intensive care units to reserve scarce resources to those who have, first, “greater likelihood of survival and secondly who have more potential years of life.”

“No one is getting kicked out, but we’re offering criteria of priority,” Dr. Petrini said. “These choices are made in normal times, but what’s not normal is when you have to assist 600 people all at once.”

Giulio Gallera, the Lombardy official leading the emergency response, said on Thursday that he hoped the guidelines never needed to be applied.

In sum, Italy did not announce it would abandon elderly patients with COVID-19 wholesale. Instead, health care workers in various circumstances and locales might be forced to ration treatment and make judgments based on who is expected to live longest, if treated. Chinese doctors have faced this situation, and some fear it may be in store for the U.S. health care system if the number of active coronavirus cases in the United States isn’t successfully controlled. We therefore rate this claim a “Mixture” of true and false.

SNOPES.COM
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


I still contend that the older population with the normal underlying medical conditions which come with age are higher risk and therefore have a higher mortality rate, with or without ventilators. From a larger perspective this is completely the fault of a centralized government's mentality that can't solve problems before hand, but simply have to react to problems as they arrive and often in a manner wholly inadequate.

 

[07pilt]

My primary complaint is the manifest difference this virus has been treated than say versus the ex-rodent in chiefs response to H1N1 (https://pjmedia.com/trending/did-ob...res-what-media-fact-checks-arent-telling-you/) which originated in Mexico. Notice after reading the attached article and the medias angst vs what is occurring now.

Key difference: H1N1 was less lethal than seasonal flu.

In reality, Trump will never win this....he won't get credit for his decisive actions saving lives (close borders, not allow flights from certain areas, cut through red tape etc etc) and can be conveniently accused of absurd neglect once the weather warms up and the cases/deaths plummet. A man who's administration had the good fortune to have warm weather arrive which is what saved the world.

Trump will ultimately be graded on a curve. Right now South Korea and Taiwan are setting the top end of the curve and Italy is setting the bottom end. I will be thrilled if the death toll is lower than H1N1.

The silver lining will be the retractions from this inane belief that Globalization is great! Want to protect your citizens, has to be done at the border, not in an ICU after the fact.

I agree. Ban international travel

The whole this "Chinese Virus" or "Wuhan virus" designation being "racist" is another canard designed to shut people up....just like the global warming nuts try to do to people who call their bluff and refute their methodology. Not everyone has to march in lockstep with Trump/administration, nor support the guy but the constant bias and chicanery by those that viscerally hate the man is hurting all Americans and right now is a good time to at least consider other people fears/plight/impending losses of income other than oneself and err on the side of caution (as others have said in this thread). Like always crying racism or predicting a monster tornado event 10 days out......people will quit paying attention when there is a warranted emergency which will result in far more deaths.

liberalism it turns out is actually a mental illness.

 

[Been Jammin]

Been, I have consistently heard he downplayed this virus (and before it was considered a pandemic), here is the actual quote;

There were multiple other instances besides that particular quote.

Thanks for the info on Italy.

 

[07pilt]

Been, I have consistently heard he downplayed this virus (and before it was considered a pandemic), here is the actual quote;
"The Democrats are politicizing the coronavirus," Trump said. "One of my people came up to me and said, 'Mr. President, they tried to beat you on Russia, Russia, Russia.' That did not work out too well. They could not do it. They tried the impeachment hoax. ... They tried anything. ... And this is their new hoax." In the context of everything the media/libs have done the past 3.3 years, I don't see this as downplaying the possible seriousness, but simply stating that it is yet another opportunists opportunity to try to hang him with enough weight that he never resurfaces and that is it!

Am not one of those people who worships everything the guy does or says, he has a highlight reel and a low light reel and has committed many unforced errors. That said he fights back and the media/libs that use to make ambiguous deals and watch R's roll over for a complimentary belly rub for agreeing to those deals, while subsequently watching their nut sacks get cut off were weak and that mentality is weak. He is definitely not "one of those guys," for which he is universally loathed by the media/libs and for that matter many of the weak R's; McCain, Romney, Kasich etc.

It sucks that the Italians are out of ventilators....where is the vaunted EU's support or for that matter individual nations support, say Germany, France etc? Is it normal for the medical field/governments to not plan ahead and make contingency plans for just such an event as this? Has the EU put together a comprehensive plan to allocate resources/ workers in case of a pandemic? One would think a organization of un-elected bureaucrats would have surly mandated provisions in the EU charter to help out their fellow members right?

An article from Snopes on 3/16/20;
What's True
Italian health care workers who are overwhelmed with COVID-19 cases could be faced with decisions about allocating limited life-saving treatment to those with the most likelihood to live longest upon survival.

What's False
However, Italy hasn't abandoned elderly patients to die. Instead, Italian health care workers, when faced with more patients than available equipment and capacity to treat them, may possibly be forced to prioritize treatment of those with the highest likelihood of surviving long-term.

"As the COVID-19 new coronavirus disease spread across the United States in early 2020, so did anxiety, as people looked to how the virus had affected Italy, already deep in the throes of the pandemic. A social media meme exacerbated the anxiety with the claim that Italian doctors had “decided NOT to treat the elderly,” and that that was the result of “socialized medicine.”

As of mid-March, Italy was the hardest-hit nation outside of Asia and had become the new epicenter for the global pandemic. As in China, where the virus was initially detected in the winter of 2019, the Italian health care system was overwhelmed by the disease. Amid fears that the United States could end up in a similar situation, a viral Facebook meme pointed the finger at Italy’s government-run health care system.
The meme appears to represent both an exaggeration and distortion of news reports and events in Italy regarding the coronavirus. Readers also inquired about an article published by the British news publication The Telegraph, headlined, “Italians over 80 ‘will be left to die’ as country overwhelmed by coronavirus.” The article references a document drawn up by health officials in Turin, a city in Northern Italy hit hard by the virus, with guidelines for if and when “It becomes impossible to provide all patients with intensive care service.” In such a case, the document says, “It will be necessary to apply criteria for access to intensive treatment, which depends on the limited resources available.”

The Telegraph reported that the document “produced by the civil protection department of the Piedmont region, one of those hardest hit, says: ‘The criteria for access to intensive therapy in cases of emergency must include age of less than 80 or a score on the Charlson comorbidity Index [which indicates how many other medical conditions the patient has] of less than 5.'”

The guidelines were expected to affect the whole country and go into effect, according to the Telegraph, “‘If the situation becomes of such an exceptional nature as to make the therapeutic choices on the individual case dependent on the availability of resources, forcing [hospitals] to focus on those cases in which the cost/benefit ratio is more favorable for clinical treatment.'”

In other words, it is not true that Italy as a whole had “decided not to treat their elderly” for the coronavirus. What is true per news reports is that overwhelmed Italian health systems that have more patients than available equipment could face “catastrophe” triage decisions not seen since World War II. That has nothing to do the fact that Italy, like other European countries, has a public health care system, or what some people call “socialized medicine.” It is instead the result of the sheer volume of cases flooding the hospitals.

As of March 12, 2020, The New York Times reported that Italian officials had maintained that everyone who needed care was entitled to it. In a public statement on the matter, Italian Prime Minister Giuseppe Conte stated, “We live in a system in which we guarantee health and the right of everyone to be cured. It’s a foundation, a pillar, and I’d say a characteristic of our system of civilization. And thus we can’t allow ourselves to let our guard down.”

The Times also reported that Flavia Petrini, president of the Italian College of Anesthesia, Analgesia, Resuscitation and Intensive Care, had issued “catastrophe medicine” guidelines:

“In a context of grave shortage of health resources,” the guidelines say, intensive care should be given to “patients with the best chance of success” and those with the “best hope of life” should be prioritized.

The guidelines also say that in “in the interests of maximizing benefits for the largest number,” limits could be put on intensive care units to reserve scarce resources to those who have, first, “greater likelihood of survival and secondly who have more potential years of life.”

“No one is getting kicked out, but we’re offering criteria of priority,” Dr. Petrini said. “These choices are made in normal times, but what’s not normal is when you have to assist 600 people all at once.”

Giulio Gallera, the Lombardy official leading the emergency response, said on Thursday that he hoped the guidelines never needed to be applied.

In sum, Italy did not announce it would abandon elderly patients with COVID-19 wholesale. Instead, health care workers in various circumstances and locales might be forced to ration treatment and make judgments based on who is expected to live longest, if treated. Chinese doctors have faced this situation, and some fear it may be in store for the U.S. health care system if the number of active coronavirus cases in the United States isn’t successfully controlled. We therefore rate this claim a “Mixture” of true and false.

SNOPES.COM
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


I still contend that the older population with the normal underlying medical conditions which come with age are higher risk and therefore have a higher mortality rate, with or without ventilators. From a larger perspective this is completely the fault of a centralized government's mentality that can't solve problems before hand, but simply have to react to problems as they arrive and often in a manner wholly inadequate.

Another reason the average age of dead Italians is so high is that they are the first ones to succumb to the disease. Right now Italy has as many deaths as recoveries, there are still a lot of outcomes still up in the air.

 

[Inky29]

Short of Trump discovering a cure he's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. Heck, I don't know what to believe since the Gov of NY is saying Trump is doing a good job. If someone is doing a good job in his eyes is he really doing a good job? See, damned if you do, damned if you don't.

I don't think there would be much of a different in infection rate or death tolls right now if he would have come out three weeks ago with these measures. I do think at times you can't always come out with a sky is falling mentality from the get go and that spouting hope and having a little Frank Drebin in your approach is a good thing. Now we have no clue what was going on behind the scenes when all this started and I think we can see from our own little message board the abundance of conflicting stories and reports about the severity of this virus. If he knee jerked reacted he'd be burn for that as well.

I'd like to see more testing kits available, I'd like to hear more about if this is affected by the heat like other viruses, I'd like to know if herd immunity is possible with this virus, and a host of other things. Like most things we are just going to have to wait and see, the problem is no one has any patience any more because we are so used to getting things now. Even older folks who should be cautious have no patience. I really hope this is a good wake up call for all businesses and individuals to maybe cut back and start saving. Doubt it will happen but it would be nice.