Death by Simon Says!

[hollywood]

This PO was found "not guilty" a day or so ago, in the shooting death of an unarmed man who was on hands, knees, belly in a hotel hallway.

Now the video of the interaction between the man and the lead cop (there were other PO's present) has been released. I'm sorry, but the directions coming from the cop were often confusing as hell and in some instances completely contradictory to the instruction that preceded it a few seconds before.

Stone cold sober, I'm not certain how many people could follow this confusing bit of instructions, then toss in the threat of "shooting you if you make a single mistake" being made constantly in a loud, very threatening voice and the difficulty level shoots way up.

Like I said, it was like one of those Simon Says games with a professional caller, where it's a virtual impossibility for someone to go a few moves without making a mistake.

http://www.tmz.com/2017/12/07/mesa-...ailsford-not-guilty-daniel-shaver/?adid=hero1

IMHO, this was barely short of an assassination.

 

[Ostatedchi]

Gawd damn I'm fully russled. That kid was no threat at all. You could tell he was scared shitless.

 

[Been Jammin]

While I think the cop was being ridiculous, and that the kid did not pose a threat, I can see how the cop was exonerated. At about 3:20, the kid puts both hands behind his back and the cop tells him to put them straight up in the air and not do that again. Right before the cop shoots him, the kid puts his right hand behind his back. If he had a handgun in his waistband, behind his back, he could have used it on the officers.

At first blush, I was wondering why they didn't move forward and put him in restraints while he was face down, but it seems pretty clear that they thought there was someone else around the corner, or in the room the kids came out of. They didn't want to be trying to put zip ties/cuffs on him when someone came around the corner shooting.

 

[hollywood]

While I think the cop was being ridiculous, and that the kid did not pose a threat, I can see how the cop was exonerated. At about 3:20, the kid puts both hands behind his back and the cop tells him to put them straight up in the air and not do that again. Right before the cop shoots him, the kid puts his right hand behind his back. If he had a handgun in his waistband, behind his back, he could have used it on the officers.

At first blush, I was wondering why they didn't move forward and put him in restraints while he was face down, but it seems pretty clear that they thought there was someone else around the corner, or in the room the kids came out of. They didn't want to be trying to put zip ties/cuffs on him when someone came around the corner shooting.

It's a virtual impossibility to carry any type of handgun in the waistband of a pair of gym shorts.

there were enough cops in that hallway to control the situation, with one keeping the lone suspect covered (the female had already left the scene) while the others approached the room to clear it. This was a significant overreaction to the threat posed by the guy.

Put your hands on the floor, keep your legs crossed - now put yourself in a kneeling position, now put your hands in the air and crawl towards me.... WTF? BTW, he's the only who fired shots and he was fired from his job two months later for his actions.

 

[Been Jammin]

It's a virtual impossibility to carry any type of handgun in the waistband of a pair of gym shorts.

there were enough cops in that hallway to control the situation, with one keeping the lone suspect covered (the female had already left the scene) while the others approached the room to clear it. This was a significant overreaction to the threat posed by the guy.

Put your hands on the floor, keep your legs crossed - now put yourself in a kneeling position, now put your hands in the air and crawl towards me.... WTF? BTW, he's the only who fired shots and he was fired from his job two months later for his actions.

I'm not saying he behaved appropriately. I totally agree with everything you said.

I was just pointing out that I could see how a defense lawyer could get him acquitted of the charges.

 

[PokeMBA]

Yes. This was worse than any of the "racist" police brutality.

Where are the white race riots at?

 

[squeak]

That kid was an idiot.

 

[Been Jammin]

That kid was an idiot.

Maybe drunk or high on something.

Idiot or not, he didn’t deserve to die.

 

[EvilPOKES]

It's a virtual impossibility to carry any type of handgun in the waistband of a pair of gym shorts.

there were enough cops in that hallway to control the situation, with one keeping the lone suspect covered (the female had already left the scene) while the others approached the room to clear it. This was a significant overreaction to the threat posed by the guy.

Put your hands on the floor, keep your legs crossed - now put yourself in a kneeling position, now put your hands in the air and crawl towards me.... WTF? BTW, he's the only who fired shots and he was fired from his job two months later for his actions.

It is called a holster.

 

[Been Jammin]

I once saw a really good documentary where a guy used packing tape to tape a gun to his back where he could reach it. Worked perfectly.

You can see the documentary on Netflix. It is called Diehard.

 

[squeak]

Maybe drunk or high on something.

Idiot or not, he didn’t deserve to die.

Some people that don’t deserve to die do stupid shit that gets them killed.

 

[hollywood]

What "stupid shit" did this kid do exactly?

Like I said, I think most of us - in such a high-pressure intense situation, where you are being constantly told that even one slight error leads you to being killed - would have a hell of a time following the instructions as they were being dealt out.

I know it's just my opinion, but that entire thing played out like it was designed to fail. There were so many contradictory and near impossible physical demands being made in rapid succession that I seriously doubt more than a handful of people could have successfully negotiated the situation. Put your hands up in the air, cross your legs, now start crawling towards me...? The sequence of commands made no sense and that ONE cop, who was giving the commands, just seemed like he wanted an excuse to start firing.

The fact he had engraved (written?) on his rifle "You're Fu**ed" shows a mindset of someone prone to doing something like this. For the record, none of the other cops present fired a single shot, and this guy was released by the PD in short order after the shooting, with the Police finding that his actions were not justified.

Again, what exactly did the guy (victim) do that was idiotic?

 

[squeak]

What "stupid shit" did this kid do exactly?

Like I said, I think most of us - in such a high-pressure intense situation, where you are being constantly told that even one slight error leads you to being killed - would have a hell of a time following the instructions as they were being dealt out.

I know it's just my opinion, but that entire thing played out like it was designed to fail. There were so many contradictory and near impossible physical demands being made in rapid succession that I seriously doubt more than a handful of people could have successfully negotiated the situation. Put your hands up in the air, cross your legs, now start crawling towards me...? The sequence of commands made no sense and that ONE cop, who was giving the commands, just seemed like he wanted an excuse to start firing.

The fact he had engraved (written?) on his rifle "You're Fu**ed" shows a mindset of someone prone to doing something like this. For the record, none of the other cops present fired a single shot, and this guy was released by the PD in short order after the shooting, with the Police finding that his actions were not justified.

Again, what exactly did the guy (victim) do that was idiotic?

He didn’t listen to the cop.

 

[Been Jammin]

What "stupid shit" did this kid do exactly?



Again, what exactly did the guy (victim) do that was idiotic?

Like I said. He reached behind his back while he was crawling toward the cop, after being warned not to do so.

Also, the girl figured out that "crawl toward me with your hands up" meant to scoot forward on your knees. The boy didn't figure it out. He was on his knees with his hands up, the cop said "crawl toward me" and the kid put his hands down on the ground.

Granted, the cop should have explained what he wanted more clearly. The cop should have moved forward and incapacitated the kid while he was face down on the ground. The cop should have spelled out exactly what he wanted and didn't want, and been more calm about the situation. He set the kid up to fail and handled the situation inappropriately. I hope he never works in L.E. again.

 

[Chillwell]

This is one of the most ****ed up things I have ever seen. I've seen many police shootings that I felt were unjustified, but this is the most egregious I've ever seen.

I watched this last night on my commute home. My reaction was visceral. I literally gasped out loud when he fired the shots. I had to get up and walk around.

As a public defender, I spend a lot of time fighting police abuse. (obligatory: most cops are honest people and just want to help protect people; I believe that to be true. And there are a lot of f'd up, dangerous people in this world, and some of the people I defend fit in this category. I work with many in law enforcement & like most of the sheriff's deputies I work with on a daily basis). But I'm sure most of you can imagine what it feels like for someone like me to see this... Someone who is constantly battling this almost deity-like reverence we have for law enforcement.

I certainly respect all law enforcement, but they are not above reproach.

Verdicts like this... to me... basically mean, a cop can shoot anybody anytime and the most significant consequence of his action is he loses his job.

I am sickened and beyond belief angered by this. I cannot tell you what I'd like to do to this authoritarian asshole. I seriously wish him a slow and painful, tortuous death.

 

[Chillwell]

BTW... have you seen what this micro-penis looked like & what he had on his gun?

 

[Ostatedchi]

As a father, that cop would be in serious jeopardy right now.

 

[Chillwell]

He didn’t listen to the cop.

He had multiple police officers in tactical gear pointing assault rifles at him and having full metal jacket orders shouted at him. He was in tears... scared to death. It is obvious to me that he was doing his best to comply with everything those cops said. If you can't see that, I have no idea of what can be said.

This was a ****ing execution. That young man posed zero threat to those cops.

When they were down on their face with their hands out, why not walk up to them then and cuff them?

I guess some of you just want to give the police carte blanche. I know our founding fathers did not.

 

[Been Jammin]

He had multiple police officers in tactical gear pointing assault rifles at him and having full metal jacket orders shouted at him. He was in tears... scared to death. It is obvious to me that he was doing his best to comply with everything those cops said. If you can't see that, I have no idea of what can be said.

Agree.
He was scared to death. (then he was shot to death).
He was trying to comply. The orders were confusing. He wasn't doing exactly what he was told, though. Probably because he was so scared or high/drunk (or some combination).

This was a ****ing execution. That young man posed zero threat to those cops.

This is clear. But, we do have the advantage of hindsight. We know that he wasn't armed (the cops did not). We, also don't know what precluded that situation. Did someone hear gunshots and call the cops? Was a dead body found in the parking lot? The killer cop was sure acting like he had reason to believe that the 2 kids posed a threat. Maybe he was acting that way inappropriately, or maybe he had a legitimate reason to think there was an imminent threat.

When they were down on their face with their hands out, why not walk up to them then and cuff them?

I agree with this. Especially if there were more than 2 cops there. One guy to cuff them, one guy to keep his weapon pointed at them while they get cuffed, and one guy to cover the corner of the hallway in case there is a 3rd "bad guy" lurking.

I guess some of you just want to give the police carte blanche. I know our founding fathers did not.

Don't think they should get carte blanche. Just don't think we are in position to judge them from on 30 second video. Need to know more about the situation. They have a tough job and risk their lives to do it.

 

[Chillwell]

This is the long video...

 

[blbronco]

sure, kid was stupid, but there is no excuse for his death. F*** the hindsight bullshit. If any of those cops had a functional brain synapse, a quick assessment that the kid was scared out of his mind and other non-lethal methods could have been taken. Shit training for even shittier people with badges killed that kid. Hell, the killer's own team struggled to do what he was saying. I will give most officers some benefit of the doubt, but this prick gets no defense.

 

[squeak]

The cop has a small penis but he was found not guilty by a jury of his peers.

 

[csh]

The fact he had engraved (written?) on his rifle "You're Fu**ed" shows a mindset of someone prone to doing something like this.

Pure speculation on my part, but, this info, along with his crazy eyed photo, makes me wonder how many coworkers saw something like this coming, and weren't particularly surprised when it happened.

 

[Wally12]

The guy was intoxicated, had been drinking in his hotel room with 2 acquaintances. He was a pest control worker who had been using a scoped air rifle to get birds out of grocery stores. At some point, someone in the room pointed the air rifle out the window at the hotel pool and guests told the hotel, who called the cops.

 

[Been Jammin]

The guy was intoxicated, had been drinking in his hotel room with 2 acquaintances. He was a pest control worker who had been using a scoped air rifle to get birds out of grocery stores. At some point, someone in the room pointed the air rifle out the window at the hotel pool and guests told the hotel, who called the cops.

So, the cops thought there was a 3rd individual, who was armed, hiding in the room, or around the corner.

 

[MegaPoke]

Surprised there is a discussion here. This was an execution by a bad cop.

The not guilty verdict just shows there is a higher burden of reasonable doubt for a jury, and that’s good but in no way proved the cop wasn’t to blame.

A public defender’s POV in this thread is pretty relevant, as the cop was the one who probably needed one.

 

[Been Jammin]

Surprised there is a discussion here. This was an execution by a bad cop.

The not guilty verdict just shows there is a higher burden of reasonable doubt for a jury, and that’s good but in no way proved the cop wasn’t to blame.

A public defender’s POV in this thread is pretty relevant, as the cop was the one who probably needed one.

Totally agree.

 

[hollywood]

Surprised there is a discussion here. This was an execution by a bad cop.

The not guilty verdict just shows there is a higher burden of reasonable doubt for a jury, and that’s good but in no way proved the cop wasn’t to blame.

A public defender’s POV in this thread is pretty relevant, as the cop was the one who probably needed one.

Mega,

I'm sure, after you've had time to ruminate on it, just how lucky you were to have gone unscathed during your encounter with the Tulsa PD.

I've known some very good cops and then I've met a few who were little more than roid-ragers looking to take down anyone who might not "Respect My Authoritah." The very fact that he had inscribed his rifle in the way he did, shows to me a mindset that was almost certainly going to lead up to a tragedy.

"Execution" is exactly the word that sprang to my mind when I saw this video for the first time.

The very fact he unloaded on the poor guy, when NONE of his colleagues felt threatened enough to fire, tells me a lot. BTW, if these PO's feel that their job is too dangerous, perhaps they should retire/quit and take up farming - where they will twice as likely to die on the job than being a police officer.

 

[Colorado_Poke]

Mega,

I'm sure, after you've had time to ruminate on it, just how lucky you were to have gone unscathed during your encounter with the Tulsa PD.

???

What's the story here? Inquiring minds want to know!

 

[100TonsofOrangeFury]

???

What's the story here? Inquiring minds want to know!

Check the HOF board, it's got to be on there. As I recall, he took off his shirt at a Bieber concert and tried to rush the stage for a hug and more.

 

[Colorado_Poke]

Check the HOF board, it's got to be on there. As I recall, he took off his shirt at a Bieber concert and tried to rush the stage for a hug and more.

That's right, I had completely forgotten about that incident. Fandom causes us to do strange things, I suppose.