Cowboy RTC

[xJakeRobertsx]

1. With all its tradition, how come the consensus on this board is that the Cowboy RTC has no money?

2. Is Dieringer the only post grad training in the OSU room?

3. How can Oklahoma, who has been tanking at the NCAA's, hire Guerrero as a full time RTC coach, and bring in Molinaro, but OSU cannot? Where is OU getting this money that OSU does not have?

4. John Smith is the GOAT. I would think post grads would be flocking from all over the world for the chance to train for world and Olympic gold while being coached by him. OSU had a run there with Kelly, Guerrero, Cormier, Mocco, Lawal, Blanc, and Scott but things seem to have dried up since 2012.

 

[osu2082]

We just haven’t done a good job of setting up the infrastructure to keep pace with others.

We have seen some small progress but still no major donor push to really make it happen. We better do something soon or our college program will fall further behind.

 

[OSUMatFan]

If we can fund a $60+ million facility in baseball where are good program, but not a great program I am shocked that we cannot get a $10 million fund for wrestling. We can do this with some inertia from our Athletic Director.

 

[osu2082]

If we can fund a $60+ million facility in baseball where are good program, but not a great program I am shocked that we cannot get a $10 million fund for wrestling. We can do this with some inertia from our Athletic Director.

We may have the best fundraiser in college athletics heading our athletic department. We are actively looking for a naming rights donor for this project. The other thing is Mike has said countless times he will not just build facilities to get them done. He will only build a facilities that will be among the tops in the sport and a facility that helps win national championships. I would imagine the price tag is quite a bit higher.

OSU has a very small high dollar alumni base (Mike has helped grow this tremendously and it is growing organically) which makes fundraising tough. The good news is it is absolutely the priority right now.

 

[skylinepoke]

If we can fund a $60+ million facility in baseball where are good program, but not a great program I am shocked that we cannot get a $10 million fund for wrestling. We can do this with some inertia from our Athletic Director.

This is bullshit. Holder has been working on wrestling for at least a year and he wants the very best. We could have had a baseball facility a couple of years ago but Holder wanted the very best and held off until he could build the best. He will do the same for wrestling once he finds the money.

 

[OSUMatFan]

What is BS about what I stated? I would imagine that we have enough money in our donor base to do both. I have to pay a great deal of attention to get my dues into the Cowboy Wrestling Club and have never once received a call regarding wrestling.

 

[Air_Thurman]

If we can fund a $60+ million facility in baseball where are good program, but not a great program I am shocked that we cannot get a $10 million fund for wrestling. We can do this with some inertia from our Athletic Director.

Considering the bulk of the money for the baseball stadium came from a non alumnus you might be overestimating the millions just lying around our fanbase.

Holder is one of the best fundraiser in college sports histories. He will get a new wrestling facility done and it will be the best in the country. But it wont happen overnight.

 

[Alpha Poke]

I would’ve said that Wrestling was Holders last facilities fundraising wizardry (RTC included), which is well underway. However, now I’m starting to hear softball renovations (to make it regional host worthy) might’ve been added to the docket too after wrestling.

 

[Wrassler17]

This has been said before, but there's the RTC and there's the wrestling facility. The facility will have a $10+MM price tag and take a couple of years to build.

The RTC is where your bang for the buck is. For ~ $500K/year, we could add maybe 6 post grade athletes plus a full time coach. Then over time we could work to endow those positions.

And with Daton being the only college guy to make the Senior World Team, there's never been a better time to fundraise. Hopefully the administration takes advantage of this opportunity.

 

[Air_Thurman]

Can the university fund raise for RTC operations?

 

[Wrassler17]

Can the university fund raise for RTC operations?

There are supposed to be separate entities, but I'm not familiar with the specifics.

That said, it appears to be like that curtain separating the RTC practice from the college practice. Or that it's OK to tweet certain things from the RTC account, but not from the team account. In other words, it's all a game that the other schools have figured out how to play.

 

[osu2082]

This has been said before, but there's the RTC and there's the wrestling facility. The facility will have a $10+MM price tag and take a couple of years to build.

The RTC is where your bang for the buck is. For ~ $500K/year, we could add maybe 6 post grade athletes plus a full time coach. Then over time we could work to endow those positions.

And with Daton being the only college guy to make the Senior World Team, there's never been a better time to fundraise. Hopefully the administration takes advantage of this opportunity.

Our AD cannot fundraise for the RTC. That has to be done by the club. Hopefully Derek and others are getting serious about this.

The first class top notch facility can wait, the RTC cannot.

 

[Wrassler17]

Our AD cannot fundraise for the RTC. That has to be done by the club. Hopefully Derek and others are getting serious about this.

The first class top notch facility can wait, the RTC cannot.

So you think Derek is spearheading the RTC fundraising? There's no way that's correct. And if it is, it would explain a lot actually.

Of course the AD can't directly be involved in the fundraising. That's why teams establish separate Boards of Directors to oversee the nonprofits' activities. But every major coaching hire made today is predicated on the administration fully backing the RTC growth. Big name coaches don't take these positions unless they've been assured of administration & booster support.

 

[osu2082]

So you think Derek is spearheading the RTC fundraising? There's no way that's correct. And if it is, it would explain a lot actually.

Of course the AD can't directly be involved in the fundraising. That's why teams establish separate Boards of Directors to oversee the nonprofits' activities. But every major coaching hire made today is predicated on the administration fully backing the RTC growth. Big name coaches don't take these positions unless they've been assured of administration & booster support.

I don’t know who else would be. As you mentioned the two entities (university and RTC) are supposed to be separate in many aspects but of course we know that isn’t the case.

Coach Smith, Espo and Chris are all very involved in the Cowboy RTC and I’d imagine would be involved in fundraising but it’s headed by Derek just as Varner and Mark Perry head up the NLRTC and HRTC.

 

[Wrassler17]

I don’t know who else would be. As you mentioned the two entities (university and RTC) are supposed to be separate in many aspects but of course we know that isn’t the case.

Coach Smith, Espo and Chris are all very involved in the Cowboy RTC and I’d imagine would be involved in fundraising but it’s headed by Derek just as Varner and Mark Perry head up the NLRTC and HRTC.

I admit that I don't know the mechanics of how these RTCs are set up and operated. But my hunch is that schools first establish the boundaries needed between the University & the RTC. The NCAA & USA Wrestling require it.

After that, the head coach likely drives the fundraising. And that effort is absolutely facilitated/supported by the administration, even if indirectly. I imagine Cael, Ryan, Brands, Dresser, etc take the lead selling the boosters based on their name recognition. And coaches like Mark Perry, Varner, Derek/Chris/Zack help, but they aren't the face of their programs.

 

[Wrassler17]

Sounds like some interesting discussions are happening regarding the RTCs. Listen to Bono starting around the 5 minute mark...

 

[Air_Thurman]

Sounds like some interesting discussions are happening regarding the RTCs. Listen to Bono starting around the 5 minute mark...

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Good stuff. Thanks for posting. I think we could see some big changes coming. Like Bono said, good compliance departments can’t be comfortable with the current setup.

 

[Harleycowboy]

Sounds like some interesting discussions are happening regarding the RTCs. Listen to Bono starting around the 5 minute mark...

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This club system sounds like the right way to go and take away Penn. St. tremendous advantage that Cael has set up by paying athletes a lot after they finish their college careers. An asterisk should be placed on their National Championships.

 

[Wrassler17]

This club system sounds like the right way to go and take away Penn. St. tremendous advantage that Cael has set up by paying athletes a lot after they finish their college careers. An asterisk should be placed on their National Championships.

Or maybe a $ sign..

 

[Rdcldad]

Or maybe a $ sign..

very funny!!!

 

[Wrassler17]

Garland's take on the RTCs...starts around the 11 minute mark...

 

[Old Number Nine]

Does anybody know what Smith said that Bono is referring to.

 

[Air_Thurman]

Does anybody know what Smith said that Bono is referring to.

Not sure but I think reading between the lines of what Bono said and how slow we've been to adopt this, my guess is that either John and/or our compliance department is really uneasy about the setup.

 

[Wrassler17]

Koll's take is below. Starts around the 9 minute mark.

Seems to be 3 different views on the spectrum...

- Koll saying leave it as is (just don't pay current student/athletes as is rumored)
- Garland saying regulate it because there are no rules and the model has been abused
- Bono saying revert back to the club system because it's out of control right now and the model requires oversight (NCAA)

 

[west2east]

So what do you guys think of the RTC debate ?Sounds like John wants a change.Seems odd to me Gator WC thrived when not many other schools had clubs.Plus Fix was built in Okie St room.Seems like a odd take on John part.We don't need to go backwards athletes are finally earning a living to train in the old club system athletes worked all day and trained at night

 

[Air_Thurman]

So what do you guys think of the RTC debate ?Sounds like John wants a change.Seems odd to me Gator WC thrived when not many other schools had clubs.Plus Fix was built in Okie St room.Seems like a odd take on John part.We don't need to go backwards athletes are finally earning a living to train in the old club system athletes worked all day and trained at night

My guess is it is a lot more nuanced than just scrapping the system. I think some schools just want more NCAA oversight into the RTCs. Right now there is none so there is a ton of grey area. Some schools are incredibly comfortable operating in the grey and others aren't.

From a USA Wrestling perspective it is hard to argue with the RTC system. From an NCAA perspective it is kind of crazy.

 

[lawpoke87]

The NCAA hasn’t had much interest in regulating college Olympic sports especially where said sport acts as a training facility for the olympics. I don’t anticipate this will change as long as USA Wrestling is behind the system.

 

[OState Cowboys]

So what do you guys think of the RTC debate ?Sounds like John wants a change.Seems odd to me Gator WC thrived when not many other schools had clubs.Plus Fix was built in Okie St room.Seems like a odd take on John part.We don't need to go backwards athletes are finally earning a living to train in the old club system athletes worked all day and trained at night

The difference was that the club teams would have separate freestyle practices and their sponsorship dollars were pennies compared to what guys are getting now. The issue at hand has little to do with money to post-grad athletes and alot to do with using the RTC to incentivize recruits to attend a particular college financially. Trust me, nobody went to Gator because they made a lot of money. They did it to have great workout partners. And nobody went to OSU because they had money to offer after graduation. Can't quite say the same thing about PSU and tOSU.

 

[Wrassler17]

It would have been interesting to listen to the actual proposal and then hear the follow-up discussion. Without being in the room it's hard to say.

Garland said there are no rules and the system is being abused. Bono said there are no penalties and it's the wild wild west right now. So to me there's a problem. That's why I don't put much stock in what Rob Koll said or what Willie Saylor said - I don't think either one of them care about competitive balance in college wrestling. Neither does USA Wrestling. It's interesting though that Tom Ryan appears to be backing some type of reform.

So how do you implement a system that includes rules, oversight, and the authorization to levy sanctions - while still facilitating post grads with wrestling opportunities? I'm still hopeful that some serious minded leaders can negotiate a solution.

 

[osu2082]

So what do you guys think of the RTC debate ?Sounds like John wants a change.Seems odd to me Gator WC thrived when not many other schools had clubs.Plus Fix was built in Okie St room.Seems like a odd take on John part.We don't need to go backwards athletes are finally earning a living to train in the old club system athletes worked all day and trained at night

RTC’s in their current setup are essentially illegal in regards to the NCAA amateurism rules and recruiting restrictions. There isn’t much debate about it. Now the grey area has emerged simply due to the fact that the NCAA has had very little interest to follow and regulate amateur Olympic sports and college programs have created just enough separation to not really draw attention.

If the NCAA decides to (or wants to) regulate and oversee college wrestling as they do most all other sports the current setup of RTC’s will fundamentally and drastically change.

The programs that have them use them as a quasi professional team tied to their college program that enables them to hire more coaches, recruit using future employment and monetary rewards and offer more and higher end training partners than the standard scholarship limitations allow.

The hesitation John and others have had is they don’t want to ramp up funding and get it going as others have prior to getting a clear ruling from the NCAA. If it is allowed to continue it will separate the top tier programs further from the pack and could eventually hurt the sport of college wrestling which is the sports main driver here in the US.

 

[Air_Thurman]

I really wish John or Chris or Zack would jump on with the Flo guys to talk about their side. I think Flo really missed the point with their discussion today. They brought up some good points but they completely brushed off the post-graduate stuff and actually laughed at it. To me that stuff is the rub. Not necessarily the stuff about high school kids being on campus. I would think coaches just want clarity from the NCAA so we are all playing by the same rules.

I don't want RTCs to go away. I think they are great for USA Wrestling. However, if some are using the RTCs to skirt scholarship limitations that's a real issue and you can't just say so what.

If you told Mike Gundy or Mike Boynton about RTCs they would look at you like you were crazy.

 

[Dugan2035]

They also forgot to mention how Coach Bono and Coach Kolat and several other coaches are on record wanting some changes also.

 

[Wrassler17]

I really wish John or Chris or Zack would jump on with the Flo guys to talk about their side. I think Flo really missed the point with their discussion today. They brought up some good points but they completely brushed off the post-graduate stuff and actually laughed at it. To me that stuff is the rub. Not necessarily the stuff about high school kids being on campus. I would think coaches just want clarity from the NCAA so we are all playing by the same rules.

I don't want RTCs to go away. I think they are great for USA Wrestling. However, if some are using the RTCs to skirt scholarship limitations that's a real issue and you can't just say so what.

If you told Mike Gundy or Mike Boynton about RTCs they would look at you like you were crazy.

I understand what you're saying, but I think you're giving the Flo guys way too much import. John doesn't need to explain his position to them. His entire career has been about advancing the sport. Can anyone say differently?

The RTC issue has been brewing for years. The Flo guys - along with a ton of other people - have ignored the rumors of abuses, hoping no one would notice the elephant in the room. Well John came in, flipped over a few tables and got everyone's attention.

I'm glad, maybe people will talk about solutions now.

 

[Air_Thurman]

I understand what you're saying, but I think you're giving the Flo guys way too much import. John doesn't need to explain his position to them. His entire career has been about advancing the sport. Can anyone say differently?

The RTC issue has been brewing for years. The Flo guys - along with a ton of other people - have ignored the rumors of abuses, hoping no one would notice the elephant in the room. Well John came in, flipped over a few tables and got everyone's attention.

I'm glad, maybe people will talk about solutions now.

For sure. It just bugs me because I think they really misrepresented the opposing view point. It is great that they don't really care about the NCAA angle but that isn't a position coaches (a lot of them at least) can afford to take.

 

[Cowguy]

I don’t mind the premise of the RTCs. I do mind that a certain university can pay out very little scholarship money and have a great recruit know they’ll be “taken care of” after eligibility is up. It doesn’t just skirt scholarship limitations and ncaa rules ... it destroys them.

 

[Wrassler17]

They also forgot to mention how Coach Bono and Coach Kolat and several other coaches are on record wanting some changes also.

Kolat tweeted this the other day.

 

[Wrassler17]

Ryan's take, he basically agrees with John. Also says there is a possibility the season could be moved to the 2nd semester.

 

[thompsonja]

@smalls103

I definitely feel smalls jumped the gun on this topic. Especially calling smith selfish an out of his mind. John has always been an advocate for the sport of wrestling as a whole. I respect willie but definitely disappointed in this debate but hey that’s radio personalities for u. They can’t always play in tune. Someone has to be the devils advocate.

 

[osu2082]

@smalls103

I definitely feel smalls jumped the gun on this topic. Especially calling smith selfish an out of his mind. John has always been an advocate for the sport of wrestling as a whole. I respect willie but definitely disappointed in this debate but hey that’s radio personalities for u. They can’t always play in tune. Someone has to be the devils advocate.

The Flo guys ignored the issue that is the crux of the argument. It has nothing to do with youth development or the advancement and improvement of our senior level athletes.

It’s the illegal ties with college programs and how those ties are allowing programs to skirt the rules of recruiting, scholarship limitations and are promising future employment and perks.

This isn’t a John Smith deal as if things don’t change or we are told they won’t OSU will Benicia greatly by this system once we jump on board. This is a what’s best for college wrestling and making sure all programs are held accountable by the rules that govern the sport.

What I think is short sided especially from those guys is that if these either continue to be ignored by the NCAA or the NCAA decides not hold them to their rules then this will hurt college wrestling IMO which is what FLO is baked by and how they make their money. They don’t survive and grow like they have because of international tournaments.

 

[Rdcldad]

let’s allow ped st guys to use hgh

and see how long that stays ok

with willie

selling out john smith because you wanna sell your website is a great disservice to the sport