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Constitutional Convention

Congressional term limits might fly.
Ummm, maybe. But there are a lot of consequences of limiting terms that aren't all positive. So, that one might not even make it.

Defining citizenship and immigration.
Repealing the direct election of Senators
Balanced budget
Judges not appointed for life
Removing the 'general welfare' language in the taxation clause.
Better defining what constitutes interstate commerce.
Making it slightly easier to amend the constitution.
Clarifying secession of a state.
Updating the enumerated powers of the federal government.
 
What would be the proposals that would even have a chance to come out of the convention and then get approved by 3/4 of the states?

i’m done with the 14th amendment
and think it would have a chance to move forward

"All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside."
 
i’m done with the 14th amendment
and think it would have a chance to move forward

"All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside."
Agree. I've long been a proponent of repealing or modifying the 14th. That was my point about 'defining citizenship and immigration'. To do that functionally you'd have to edit/repeal the 14th.
 
Agree. I've long been a proponent of repealing or modifying the 14th. That was my point about 'defining citizenship and immigration'. To do that functionally you'd have to edit/repeal the 14th.

yea i picked up on that
just that i read your post after i posted mine

you posted lots of good suggestions
i agree with
 
I'd hate to see what these idiots in power today would come up with in a Constitutional Convention. They would likely make things worse.

Heck I wouldn't trust those conniving horse thieves with a penny of next week's pay check.


I’m with that guy
 
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Ummm, maybe. But there are a lot of consequences of limiting terms that aren't all positive. So, that one might not even make it.

Defining citizenship and immigration.
Repealing the direct election of Senators
Balanced budget
Judges not appointed for life
Removing the 'general welfare' language in the taxation clause.
Better defining what constitutes interstate commerce.
Making it slightly easier to amend the constitution.
Clarifying secession of a state.
Updating the enumerated powers of the federal government.
Is that your “wish list’ or are those the things that you believe would have a chance of passing? Or both?
 
So you don't think term limits will fly but you want Mary Fallin selecting Senators?

I really used to think a better country would come out of a Constitution convention, hut now I think maybe 3 or 4 countries would probably result and I'm not sure they would be the best for all of us.

I think I'm w AC2017 on this matter. Too many greedy self interested politicians will ruin it for the rest of us.
 
So you don't think term limits will fly but you want Mary Fallin selecting Senators?

Nope. I want the states to have the option to chose however they'd like. Historically that was by the state legislatures and could be removed by that same legislature if they didn't act in the best interest of the state. That way the Senator was accountable to the state representation - not a whore for the vote.

The senate was designed to represent the states and the house to represent the people. Now they both represent the people. I think it is unbalanced and at the very least give states the option to chose for themselves how senators go to Washington.
 
Equal Rights Amendment
Citizens United Reversal
Right to Privacy (general not specific to Roe v Wade)
Marriage Equality


Got Damn that would be fun!
 
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Equal Rights Amendment
Citizens United Reversal
Right to Privacy (general not specific to Roe v Wade)
Marriage Equality


Got Damn that would be fun!
The ERA based on gender is out dated now. The ERA should just be a blanket statement that all US citizens shall have all the rights of any other US citizen. period. That way all sub-sets are covered and none are omitted.

Citizens United - tough to limit free speech and not abridge the 1st amendment.

Right to Privacy - sure. I think that should be an explicitly listed right as opposed to an implied one.

Marriage Equality - sure.
 
Marriage is a religious ceremony and shouldn't be in our laws for anything. Separation of church and state.

Remove marriage tax benefits from our tax code and marriage can go back to the church where it belongs.

interesting take
 
Or at least divorce the notion of a religious vow and a state recognized binding incorporation.
The county courthouse should be a place to keep your record of marriage. Just like if you created an LLC. Your 'marriage certificate' should be like any other contract. The state doesn't limit who all can incorporate.
 
what does diversity have to do with over weighting the rural vote? serious question....
Diversity in thought, diversity in demographics, diversity in lifestyles....I just think the historical significance of the Electoral College will continue to work for those of us not on the coast, not in the densest populated areas. I get the whole popular vote argument, but if all a candidate has to do is win just a few states to win overall, I think that alienates a lot of people. I don't think the current system over-weights an rural area/state, if anything, it under-weights the non-rural areas. I don't know what the parameters are for adding/subtracting a state's electoral number and am too lazy right now to even check. But, as it currently sits, it works enough for me.
 
Diversity in thought, diversity in demographics, diversity in lifestyles....I just think the historical significance of the Electoral College will continue to work for those of us not on the coast, not in the densest populated areas. I get the whole popular vote argument, but if all a candidate has to do is win just a few states to win overall, I think that alienates a lot of people. I don't think the current system over-weights an rural area/state, if anything, it under-weights the non-rural areas. I don't know what the parameters are for adding/subtracting a state's electoral number and am too lazy right now to even check. But, as it currently sits, it works enough for me.
"work for" or provide disproportionate power to?

don't mean to be an asshat (just typing that makes me think I AM being an asshat) but under representing non rural is the same as over representing rural isn't it?

BTW: the formula is one EC Vote for each Rep + one for each Senator which means that Wyoming gets 1 electoral college delegate per 187k (or so) citizens while New York gets 1 per 667k (or so). Does that sound representative?
 
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"work for" or provide disproportionate power to?

don't mean to be an asshat (just typing that makes me think I AM being an asshat) but under representing non rural is the same as over representing rural isn't it?

BTW: the formula is one EC Vote for each Rep + one for each Senator which means that Wyoming gets 1 electoral college delegate per 140k (or so) citizens while New York gets 1 per 520k (or so). Does that sound representative?
Well, we’re talking about THREE electoral college votes here, so I’m hard pressed to come up with a scenario where that would ever make a difference.
 
"work for" or provide disproportionate power to?

don't mean to be an asshat (just typing that makes me think I AM being an asshat) but under representing non rural is the same as over representing rural isn't it?

BTW: the formula is one EC Vote for each Rep + one for each Senator which means that Wyoming gets 1 electoral college delegate per 187k (or so) citizens while New York gets 1 per 667k (or so). Does that sound representative?
Yes it does sound representative. It is there precisely to ensure that the president has broad approval across many states. The college is in part a firewall against a state or states corrupting their voting processes. So it is protecting the entire republic by limiting a state. That and originally the states needed representation from their Senators.

It is also representative because we collectively have agreed those are the terms we've chosen to govern ourselves as a republic.
 
Well, we’re talking about THREE electoral college votes here, so I’m hard pressed to come up with a scenario where that would ever make a difference.
So you think it is fine that Wyoming citizens have 3.5 X the political power as a New Yorker? In aggregate 80% of the electorate lives in urban centers.

Generally, minority rule does not turn out well...
 
Yes it does sound representative. It is there precisely to ensure that the president has broad approval across many states. The college is in part a firewall against a state or states corrupting their voting processes. So it is protecting the entire republic by limiting a state. That and originally the states needed representation from their Senators.

It is also representative because we collectively have agreed those are the terms we've chosen to govern ourselves as a republic.
The advocacy for moving away from the electoral college is in the context of a constitutional convention (which despite my "got damn this would be fun comment" would a complete shit show).

As to you abusing the term representative, I refer you to a dictionary.
 
So you think it is fine that Wyoming citizens have 3.5 X the political power as a New Yorker? In aggregate 80% of the electorate lives in urban centers.

Generally, minority rule does not turn out well...
This is an idiotic tact. We don't have federal elections; we have state elections. As such there is not real direct comparison from one voter to another voter across state lines.

We are a republic; not a democracy. That's not a difficult concept to grasp. Anyone who can't is being obtuse - either intentional or not.
 
The advocacy for moving away from the electoral college is in the context of a constitutional convention (which despite my "got damn this would be fun comment" would a complete shit show).

Agree it would be a shit show.
Disagree that moving away from the electoral college would be a good idea. And honestly in my opinion it would be a deal breaker. That's sacrosanct.
 
We don't have federal elections; we have state elections. As such there is not real direct comparison from one voter to another voter across state lines.
Yes, because what was required to form the first iteration of a democratic republic will always be appropriate. "We always did it that way" is a 3rd grade argument.

Show some self respect. Describing everyone you disagree with as being "obtuse - either intentional or not" is an intellectual crutch.

Either come up with a convincing argument or bow out.
 
Yes, because what was required to form the first iteration of a democratic republic will always be appropriate. "We always did it that way" is a 3rd grade argument.

Show some self respect. Describing everyone you disagree with as being "obtuse - either intentional or not" is an intellectual crutch.

Either come up with a convincing argument or bow out.
So it is your contention that we basically dissolve the idea that America is a republic of states? That's pretty much the last vestige.

I think that is horribly short sighted.

In the context of a constitutional convention; if you kill the electoral college you better make it much easier to secede. Otherwise, eventually you are going to have real issues that would make our current status seem tame.
 
So you think it is fine that Wyoming citizens have 3.5 X the political power as a New Yorker? In aggregate 80% of the electorate lives in urban centers.

Generally, minority rule does not turn out well...

There is not a scenario in which those three electoral college votes would ever make a difference. So your argument is specious. Seriously, I’m not sure why I even vote for president. Our three Wyoming electoral college votes will never make a difference.
 
Ummm, maybe. But there are a lot of consequences of limiting terms that aren't all positive. So, that one might not even make it.

Defining citizenship and immigration.
Repealing the direct election of Senators
Balanced budget
Judges not appointed for life
Removing the 'general welfare' language in the taxation clause.
Better defining what constitutes interstate commerce.
Making it slightly easier to amend the constitution.
Clarifying secession of a state.
Updating the enumerated powers of the federal government.

Great list Ostatedchi!

I think you have to shoot for attainable first, hit some successes and see where it leads. My list would be;
-term limits no good can come from having the same person holding an office for 1 or 2 generations.
-14th amendment is gone. grandfather clause the one already under the wire in, but it stops.
-17th amendment (as you stated about appointment of senators)
-compulsory military service (be a tough sell but 2 years active would teach a lot of otherwise at risk utes some discipline).
-Kill off the department of ed, department of commerce and combine dept of ag & interior. Plus start moving primary office into regions of primary control. There is no reason the dept of interior should office in DC when probably 90% of the lands they control are west of the Mississippi.
 
Yes, because what was required to form the first iteration of a democratic republic will always be appropriate. "We always did it that way" is a 3rd grade argument.

Show some self respect. Describing everyone you disagree with as being "obtuse - either intentional or not" is an intellectual crutch.

Either come up with a convincing argument or bow out.

It has always been ostatedchi's modus operandi to cast aspersions on the integrity and character of those with whom he disagrees. However, in this case, aspersions aside, he makes a valid point. We are (or should be) a republic made up of the various states. People from rural areas like Oklahoma should not be dictated to by people from major cities, especially if those cities are from a different state. By the same token, rural areas should not dictate policy practiced by cities. Your insult against his "we have always done it this way" is nonsense. There are very few - very few! - governmental policies or practices today that mimic the policies and practices of the original founding. To use that argument ("always done it that way") is, indeed, obtuse!
 
So it is your contention that we basically dissolve the idea that America is a republic of states? That's pretty much the last vestige.

I think that is horribly short sighted.

In the context of a constitutional convention; if you kill the electoral college you better make it much easier to secede. Otherwise, eventually you are going to have real issues that would make our current status seem tame.

Two things:

First you conflate a federalist form of government and representative democracy - you do understand they are not the same thing - kinda like gasoline and automobiles. There are cars that run on electricity just like there are representative democracies that are not federations of states.

Second can you tell me how "real issues" are averted with the current form of electing the President vis a vis 2 of the last 5 being elected without majority support. "Real issues" exist - though that could just be my imagination and not what shows up on my news feed.

To ground this whole conversation - no chance that a constitutional convention is possible, hell I don't even think it would be wise. Our current form is imperfect, but more than sufficient. This whole discussion is theoretical, blah, blah, blah.
 
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Great list Ostatedchi!

I think you have to shoot for attainable first, hit some successes and see where it leads. My list would be;
-term limits no good can come from having the same person holding an office for 1 or 2 generations.
-14th amendment is gone. grandfather clause the one already under the wire in, but it stops.
-17th amendment (as you stated about appointment of senators)
-compulsory military service (be a tough sell but 2 years active would teach a lot of otherwise at risk utes some discipline).
-Kill off the department of ed, department of commerce and combine dept of ag & interior. Plus start moving primary office into regions of primary control. There is no reason the dept of interior should office in DC when probably 90% of the lands they control are west of the Mississippi.
If it helps, Department of Ag is moving out of DC. Unknown reason as to why, but my wife and I think it is to be closer to (ya know) the Ag and Land Grants. Our initial guess is moving to Omaha, but nothing has been announced outside of the move in general (all this is according to the AgEcon people and my wife).
 
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It has always been ostatedchi's modus operandi to cast aspersions on the integrity and character of those with whom he disagrees. However, in this case, aspersions aside, he makes a valid point. We are (or should be) a republic made up of the various states. People from rural areas like Oklahoma should not be dictated to by people from major cities, especially if those cities are from a different state. By the same token, rural areas should not dictate policy practiced by cities. Your insult against his "we have always done it this way" is nonsense. There are very few - very few! - governmental policies or practices today that mimic the policies and practices of the original founding. To use that argument ("always done it that way") is, indeed, obtuse!
Did YOU just call ME obtuse? I am going to go sulk in the corner....
 
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So you think it is fine that Wyoming citizens have 3.5 X the political power as a New Yorker? In aggregate 80% of the electorate lives in urban centers.

Generally, minority rule does not turn out well...

They only have 3.5x the vote in presidential elections not 3.5x in total political power. They also have a different representation ratio for the Senate.

If we start putting more of the governing power with the states. It will matter less who is president and in the Senate. That is my personal preference on how to alleviate the misrepresentation percentage.
 
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