Brian Williams.
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Not a good year for Brian Williams. First, his daughter gets a rim job on cable television, now this. He's taking quite the beating on Twitter and deservedly so.
Allison Williams
Allison Williams
In my opinion, this is nothing more than an example of where the priorities of network news are centered.....ratings. The personalities have bought in to the same thinking, and I think it's true of every televised news program out there. Some individuals are likely better than others (ie more integrity) but the networks themselves only care about one thing and that is money.
The only way to find real news is to collect it from a number of different sources, wade through the bullshit and decide for yourself.
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The only way to find real news is to collect it from a number of different sources, wade through the bullshit and decide for yourself.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
The Warrant Officer who was the pilot of the Chinook, Williams was flying on kind of came to his defense today (I think it was CNN who had him on telephone.) He said that there were 3 Chinooks flying in a group, that they were taking ground fire and the lead Chinook was hit by an RPG round. They were forced down by weather and the next day they were joined by another military ground unit who stood with them until they could clear and fly out.
I haven't actually heard what Williams had claimed, but I did find it interesting that the pilot of the helo said that what he had heard was a fairly accurate representation of what had happened.
PS: I'm not defending him, like I said I don't know nearly enough what he's said in the past about the incident to make a judgment at this point. Just passing along that the pilot was providing a defense for him.
This post was edited on 2/5 9:26 PM by hollywood
I haven't actually heard what Williams had claimed, but I did find it interesting that the pilot of the helo said that what he had heard was a fairly accurate representation of what had happened.
PS: I'm not defending him, like I said I don't know nearly enough what he's said in the past about the incident to make a judgment at this point. Just passing along that the pilot was providing a defense for him.
This post was edited on 2/5 9:26 PM by hollywood
Brokaw wants him fired. Evidently people hate him at NBC and think of him as a "reader" not s journalist. But he's the face of nbc and they are stuck with him
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I understand that his helicopter was not among the group of 3 that had their lead copter hit. He was in a separate group that came along a couple hours later and was forced down due to weather. But, even then, they did get to a nearby supply camp there they were stranded for a couple of days.
http://www.stripes.com/news/us/brian-williams-apology-draws-mixed-reviews-from-mission-vets-1.327935
GoPokes,
If that's the case then the Warrant Officer was lying. He was quite adamant about his helo being in position two and named the pilot in the lead helo (said he had known the guy for a long time and were very good friends) and that once on the ground they discussed how close he (lead pilot) came to getting blown out of the sky when hit by the rpg round.
Again, I really don't know the details of the rest of the story, but in this interview they not only let him tell his story, but at the end recapped everything he had just said, so I am quite confident that I am relaying what he said correctly.
If that's the case then the Warrant Officer was lying. He was quite adamant about his helo being in position two and named the pilot in the lead helo (said he had known the guy for a long time and were very good friends) and that once on the ground they discussed how close he (lead pilot) came to getting blown out of the sky when hit by the rpg round.
Again, I really don't know the details of the rest of the story, but in this interview they not only let him tell his story, but at the end recapped everything he had just said, so I am quite confident that I am relaying what he said correctly.
The pilot I interviewed on Thursday about Brian Williams is no longer standing by his story.
That pilot, Rich Krell, told me he was flying the helicopter Williams was on in Iraq -- an account now contradicted by several other soldiers.
On Friday morning, Krell told me that "the information I gave you was true based on my memories, but at this point I am questioning my memories."
This week, I've been urging Brian Williams to be fully transparent about what happened on his embed in Iraq and about why his story evolved over the years.
I'm going to practice complete transparency.
Here is what happened:
When I appeared on CNN's "New Day" on Thursday morning, I cited what the Stars and Stripes newspaper had reported the day before -- that the helicopter carrying Williams was an hour away from the location of the rocket-propelled grenade attack on March 24, 2003.
Krell was watching, and he tweeted at me: "Saw your interview on CNN this AM. Your facts are wrong. I was the Pilot in Command of the CH-47 that Brian Williams was on."
I replied with my phone number, and Krell called me. I didn't assume he was who he said he was, but I was intrigued by his story and wanted to check it out.
On the phone, Krell told me that he was at the command of the "second bird" in a formation of three Chinooks, with Williams riding in the back of the "second bird."
He said the "first bird" was struck by a rocket-propelled grenade, contradicting what Williams said as recently as last Friday, that Williams was aboard the helicopter that was hit.
But Krell said all three of the helicopters came under "small arms fire," lending support to the stories Williams told over the years about being "under fire" in Iraq.
Krell spoke confidently and matter-of-factly. He joked about how Williams seemed uncomfortable in the field, whereas fellow NBC correspondent Ann Curry was "awesome" to be around.
Afterward, I emailed some of his quotes back to him, to fact-check, and he affirmed all of it.
I looped in my editor at CNNMoney and started verifying Krell's identity and story. I asked myself: was Krell a "plant?" Did he invent his Twitter account to trick me? No -- his account dated back to 2012. I cross-referenced his Twitter and LinkedIn accounts and other Google results for his name. I found what he'd written about Iraq, and what had been written about him.
Importantly, I found a picture of Krell standing with Williams in a book published by NBC News about the Iraq War.
Perhaps most importantly, I contacted the NBC News public relations department. When I asked about Krell's name, the P.R. person replied with a message labeled "off the record," so I can't quote it here. Suffice to say, the reply gave me more confidence in Krell's account.
Then I wrote a CNNMoney story, quoting Krell at length. "He messed up some things and said some things he shouldn't have," Krell said -- while backing up Williams' accounts of "small arms fire." I also helped set up Krell's Thursday afternoon interview on CNN TV.
The newspaper Stars and Stripes published a story on Thursday afternoon contradicting Krell's account. I called Krell and he told me, "No, that's not what happened."
Krell is now works for a military contractor after serving in the Army from 1983 to 2007.
At this point, I still hadn't heard back from any of the other soldiers I had contacted for interviews. (I'd started to contact some soldiers on Wednesday, when the story broke, and I redoubled my efforts on Thursday.)
On Thursday night, two others, Christopher Simeone and Allan Kelly, told The New York Times that they -- not Krell -- had piloted Williams' helicopter, and that "they did not recall their convoy of helicopters coming under fire."
Simeone, Kelly and a third soldier, Joseph Miller, also spoke with The Omaha World-Herald. The newspaper wrote this:
"Simeone and Kelly said only two helicopters were in their group, from Company B of the 159th Aviation. They said Krell was piloting the first helicopter. Simeone and Kelly were pilots on the second Chinook, and Miller was in their crew."
The paper continued: "All three said Williams was riding with them, not with Krell. They all said neither bird took fire at any time that day."
I text-messaged Krell before dawn, and asked him to call me as soon as he woke up. He replied with this text:
"Good morning. The information I gave you was true based on my memories, but at this point I am questioning my memories that I may have forgotten or left something out."
He said, "For the past 12 years I have been trying to forget everything that happened in Iraq and Afghanistan; now that I let it back, the nightmares come back with it, so I want to forget again."
He concluded, "The men in that article deserve respect. Please understand."
The NBC P.R. person now says the network can't confirm which person piloted Williams' helicopter. The situation remains murky and Many questions remain unanswered. (There is somebody that can clear a lot of this up -- and that's Williams.)
Bottom line: this pilot is revising his story - and, because of that, I'm revising mine.
What initially looked like an account that supported some of Brian Williams' war story -- that he came "under fire" that day -- no longer appears to be true.
This post was edited on 2/6 10:09 AM by mseabolt
That pilot, Rich Krell, told me he was flying the helicopter Williams was on in Iraq -- an account now contradicted by several other soldiers.
On Friday morning, Krell told me that "the information I gave you was true based on my memories, but at this point I am questioning my memories."
This week, I've been urging Brian Williams to be fully transparent about what happened on his embed in Iraq and about why his story evolved over the years.
I'm going to practice complete transparency.
Here is what happened:
When I appeared on CNN's "New Day" on Thursday morning, I cited what the Stars and Stripes newspaper had reported the day before -- that the helicopter carrying Williams was an hour away from the location of the rocket-propelled grenade attack on March 24, 2003.
Krell was watching, and he tweeted at me: "Saw your interview on CNN this AM. Your facts are wrong. I was the Pilot in Command of the CH-47 that Brian Williams was on."
I replied with my phone number, and Krell called me. I didn't assume he was who he said he was, but I was intrigued by his story and wanted to check it out.
On the phone, Krell told me that he was at the command of the "second bird" in a formation of three Chinooks, with Williams riding in the back of the "second bird."
He said the "first bird" was struck by a rocket-propelled grenade, contradicting what Williams said as recently as last Friday, that Williams was aboard the helicopter that was hit.
But Krell said all three of the helicopters came under "small arms fire," lending support to the stories Williams told over the years about being "under fire" in Iraq.
Krell spoke confidently and matter-of-factly. He joked about how Williams seemed uncomfortable in the field, whereas fellow NBC correspondent Ann Curry was "awesome" to be around.
Afterward, I emailed some of his quotes back to him, to fact-check, and he affirmed all of it.
I looped in my editor at CNNMoney and started verifying Krell's identity and story. I asked myself: was Krell a "plant?" Did he invent his Twitter account to trick me? No -- his account dated back to 2012. I cross-referenced his Twitter and LinkedIn accounts and other Google results for his name. I found what he'd written about Iraq, and what had been written about him.
Importantly, I found a picture of Krell standing with Williams in a book published by NBC News about the Iraq War.
Perhaps most importantly, I contacted the NBC News public relations department. When I asked about Krell's name, the P.R. person replied with a message labeled "off the record," so I can't quote it here. Suffice to say, the reply gave me more confidence in Krell's account.
Then I wrote a CNNMoney story, quoting Krell at length. "He messed up some things and said some things he shouldn't have," Krell said -- while backing up Williams' accounts of "small arms fire." I also helped set up Krell's Thursday afternoon interview on CNN TV.
The newspaper Stars and Stripes published a story on Thursday afternoon contradicting Krell's account. I called Krell and he told me, "No, that's not what happened."
Krell is now works for a military contractor after serving in the Army from 1983 to 2007.
At this point, I still hadn't heard back from any of the other soldiers I had contacted for interviews. (I'd started to contact some soldiers on Wednesday, when the story broke, and I redoubled my efforts on Thursday.)
On Thursday night, two others, Christopher Simeone and Allan Kelly, told The New York Times that they -- not Krell -- had piloted Williams' helicopter, and that "they did not recall their convoy of helicopters coming under fire."
Simeone, Kelly and a third soldier, Joseph Miller, also spoke with The Omaha World-Herald. The newspaper wrote this:
"Simeone and Kelly said only two helicopters were in their group, from Company B of the 159th Aviation. They said Krell was piloting the first helicopter. Simeone and Kelly were pilots on the second Chinook, and Miller was in their crew."
The paper continued: "All three said Williams was riding with them, not with Krell. They all said neither bird took fire at any time that day."
I text-messaged Krell before dawn, and asked him to call me as soon as he woke up. He replied with this text:
"Good morning. The information I gave you was true based on my memories, but at this point I am questioning my memories that I may have forgotten or left something out."
He said, "For the past 12 years I have been trying to forget everything that happened in Iraq and Afghanistan; now that I let it back, the nightmares come back with it, so I want to forget again."
He concluded, "The men in that article deserve respect. Please understand."
The NBC P.R. person now says the network can't confirm which person piloted Williams' helicopter. The situation remains murky and Many questions remain unanswered. (There is somebody that can clear a lot of this up -- and that's Williams.)
Bottom line: this pilot is revising his story - and, because of that, I'm revising mine.
What initially looked like an account that supported some of Brian Williams' war story -- that he came "under fire" that day -- no longer appears to be true.
This post was edited on 2/6 10:09 AM by mseabolt
Chris Simeone, pilot of Brian Williams’ Iraq flight, has gone public and stated that his story is a bunch of bullshit. I doubt he will have a job with NBC soon.
This post was edited on 2/6 11:24 AM by pokemagain
Williams is Lying
This post was edited on 2/6 11:24 AM by pokemagain
Williams is Lying
I don't have a dog in the fight, and I also haven't paid attention to exactly what he has said. But, if we're going to rely strictly on human memory from ~12 years ago to determine who is - and to what to degree - a POS,then I have to give him benefit of the doubt unless some detailed and concrete evidence of him being a habitual liar is produced. I bet if you could round up everyone involved in every helicopter over that time frame, you would still struggle to get a consensus on exactly what happened. Again, I haven't followed his claims, just basically saying "good luck" at getting the exact story, if all we have is anecdotal accounts.
This post was edited on 2/6 12:24 PM by csh
This post was edited on 2/6 12:24 PM by csh
I can understand guys that took hundreds of rides getting a little fuzzy on what occurred when. There is no way civilian would get that confused.
"I was in a helicopter, but I don't remember if we were shot down or not. " is not a believable statement.
I don't disagree a bit, he may very well be a POS, and tried to use the story for personal gain somehow - although it's not really clear exactly what the motive might have been for a guy at the top of his profession, liked or disliked by his NBC peers. The CNN Money article linked above states that he used the phrase "forced down", which I don't necessarily put in the same category as "shot down." But anyway, I still say that the human mind is capable of some pretty amazing lapses (mine included
Originally posted by csh:
I don't disagree a bit, he may very well be a POS, and tried to use the story for personal gain somehow - although it's not really clear exactly what the motive might have been for a guy at the top of his profession, liked or disliked by his NBC peers. The CNN Money article linked above states that he used the phrase "forced down", which I don't necessarily put in the same category as "shot down." But anyway, I still say that the human mind is capable of some pretty amazing lapses (mine included), and I can imagine a chaotic environment where lots of things are simultaneously being said by multiple people (both soldiers & civilians), and possibly causing a false memory to be formed. It's crazy to think that he could screw that up, but it's also crazy to think that someone could simply forget about their young child sitting in a hot car, yet I'm told in my workplace safety briefings that this has happened to otherwise good people.
Bullshit, the damned helo's that took fire were going one direction; helo carrying Williams directly opposite. He's a lying sack of shit, and no spin from you will polish the turd.
I'm sorry you didn't like my spin, I probably don't have much of a future as a publicist. Joking aside, I never said he wasn't a liar. I just stated my opinion that a human mental error of that magnitude is nowhere near as impossible as some might think. His employer is investigating him now. If it turns out that he's a habitual liar, then I'm sure it won't end well for him.Originally posted by JimmyBob:
Originally posted by csh:
I don't disagree a bit, he may very well be a POS, and tried to use the story for personal gain somehow - although it's not really clear exactly what the motive might have been for a guy at the top of his profession, liked or disliked by his NBC peers. The CNN Money article linked above states that he used the phrase "forced down", which I don't necessarily put in the same category as "shot down." But anyway, I still say that the human mind is capable of some pretty amazing lapses (mine included), and I can imagine a chaotic environment where lots of things are simultaneously being said by multiple people (both soldiers & civilians), and possibly causing a false memory to be formed. It's crazy to think that he could screw that up, but it's also crazy to think that someone could simply forget about their young child sitting in a hot car, yet I'm told in my workplace safety briefings that this has happened to otherwise good people.
Bullshit, the damned helo's that took fire were going one direction; helo carrying Williams directly opposite. He's a lying sack of shit, and no spin from you will polish the turd.
No "sorry" needed. He's got major problems with this plus the dead body he reported about at Katrina.Originally posted by csh:
I'm sorry you didn't like my spin, I probably don't have much of a future as a publicist. Joking aside, I never said he wasn't a liar. I just stated my opinion that a human mental error of that magnitude is nowhere near as impossible as some might think. His employer is investigating him now. If it turns out that he's a habitual liar, then I'm sure it won't end well for him.Originally posted by JimmyBob:
Originally posted by csh:
I don't disagree a bit, he may very well be a POS, and tried to use the story for personal gain somehow - although it's not really clear exactly what the motive might have been for a guy at the top of his profession, liked or disliked by his NBC peers. The CNN Money article linked above states that he used the phrase "forced down", which I don't necessarily put in the same category as "shot down." But anyway, I still say that the human mind is capable of some pretty amazing lapses (mine included), and I can imagine a chaotic environment where lots of things are simultaneously being said by multiple people (both soldiers & civilians), and possibly causing a false memory to be formed. It's crazy to think that he could screw that up, but it's also crazy to think that someone could simply forget about their young child sitting in a hot car, yet I'm told in my workplace safety briefings that this has happened to otherwise good people.
Bullshit, the damned helo's that took fire were going one direction; helo carrying Williams directly opposite. He's a lying sack of shit, and no spin from you will polish the turd.
Barry Bonds was at the top of his profession and late in his career choice to use steroids to compete with Sosa and Mguire. Why? He was already a sure fire hall of famer?
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If nothing else, I'd say that the enhanced production would make for a good bargaining tool for his agent to use during contract negotiations. The top producer should get top salary. The Hall of Fame is a great honor, but it doesn't come with any direct financial incentives, i.e. I'm assuming nobody cuts you a check for it. But I get what you're saying, successful people still do weird things for weird reasons.
