Blackface

[Been Jammin]

Was reading an article about some dude in Louisiana who is running for office (didn't see the pics). He is getting criticized for attending a costume party, a few years back, dressed as Tiger Woods. Apparently, he had makeup on his face to make him look more like Tiger and less like a person of Caucasian persuasion.

I understand the significance of blackface makeup during the times of segregation and widespread bigotry in this country. I know that many comedians applied blackface and degraded African Americans. I get it.

But, is blackface ever OK? I remember the movie Silver Streak, where Gene Wilder disguised himself as a black man. Would anyone in Hollywood make that movie today, or is it too much of a hot button topic?

Basically, I don't understand why it is OK for a white person to go to a party dressed up like Moses or Richard Nixon (with makeup, fake facial hair, etc), but not dressed up like Tiger Woods or the Reverend Jesse Jackson (unless you do it without applying brown/black makeup)?

It is one thing to apply blackface so that you can make fun of black people. But, "imitation is the best form of flattery". Should it ever be OK for a white person to pretend to be a black person? Is it possible to do it in a tasteful way, where there is no ill intention?

With all that said, I would never, ever do it, due to the risk of it haunting me for the rest of my life. To me, it just doesn't seem that it should be quite as much of a stigma as it is.

 

[windriverrange]

Been, you should check out the movie "Watermelon Man," its old and sure would be considered way over the top these days, but it was of a minority in "Whiteface" then changing. Crazy stuff...

Don't care for Tiget, but seems someone wanting to go to a costume party dressed as him would actually be honorable.

 

[Inky29]

Let me preface my comments on this by saying that I am a white male and am complete ignorant of race issues and incapable of ever understanding.

Now that I've said that (I believe that's what I'm supposed to say anytime something racial is discussed), I don't believe that is necessarily offensive or even "blackface." I'm sure someone will probably correct me but to me blackface seemed to be used to sterotype all black individuals, such as, we're putting on a play and need some black slaves or house staff and instead of hiring anyone of color you just caked on the black makeup to a white actor to help continue the idea of the happy go lucky house help or slave. Anything that continues on the story of inferiority due to race needs to stop. To me I think the idiots that have a "plantation ball" and dress up as slaves are the ones that deserve public ridicule and some life lessons. I don't think dressing up as Tiger would rise to the level of racially offensive but nowadays we are so eager to lump everything in as offensive or hate speech and oppressive. Having said all that I now believe that this dude should have a live snake shoved up his arse as punishment (just so people know how serious of a moral crime this is).

 

[hollywood]

Much for the same "historical" and cultural reasons why it's inappropriate to go out to some function in a costume that features a giant hook nose and exaggerated features in a way that stereotypes Jews?

But I will agree that perhaps it's not a 100% hard and fast rule. In general, I would say it's a bad idea just because it is too close to home from the days of the black-face minstrel shows, where very racist stereotypes ruled the day.

In the case you mentioned, "Silver Streak" and let's toss in "Trading Places" as well, where the white character uses black face, it's part of advancing the story line and I don't think most or anyone would read "racism" or an attempt at resurrecting the days of the minstrel shows. It also helps when the two black actors/writers playing opposite those in black face, were actually instrumental in creating the story and character.

I'll even go one further, a book and later movie from early 60's called "Black Like Me" where a white journalist used a number of skin dies to make himself appear black and traveled through the country to see how different his treatment was depending upon whether he was viewed as black or white. Obviously, not for some racist or stereotypical purpose.

It's not like there's some compelling reason to try and look like a black person, famous or not. So, I guess I'm not seeing any value to donning black face for any reason. (other than if you're in the military and you black out your face on a mission.)

 

[Inky29]

Racheal Dolezal disagrees with you that there is no compelling reason to try and look like a black person.

I guess imitation is not the sincerest form of flattery anymore. Oh well.

 

[hollywood]

That girl (Racheal Dolezal) obviously has some mental problems.

I don't know why, but I remember when I was reading about her..... it made me think of the "speech" Eastwood's character in Gran Torino, gave to the guy who was trying to cozy up to the black guys and they weren't having any of it.

 

[Inky29]

lol, I just realized that was his son that was playing that role.

 

[FalseGod]

You can call a black person the n-word too, but it isn't a good idea. Anyone with any common sense knows it is not a good idea as a white person to dress up in black face.

 

[Been Jammin]

You can call a black person the n-word too, but it isn't a good idea. Anyone with any common sense knows it is not a good idea as a white person to dress up in black face.

I agree. But should it be that way?

 

[FalseGod]

I agree. But should it be that way?

Should we say please, thank you, you're welcome, etc? Those are things that we do that we don't have to, but it is a good idea to do them. I personally think standards of behavior are a good thing, and part of living in a civilized society. If we want our society to be civilized, then I say it should be that way.

 

[ThorOdinson13]

That girl (Racheal Dolezal) obviously has some mental problems.

Does a man who thinks he's actually a woman or vice versa have mental problems? I just want to be sure I understand this issue.

 

[Kenny Orange Powers]

You can call a black person the n-word too, but it isn't a good idea. Anyone with any common sense knows it is not a good idea as a white person to dress up in black face.

 

[Dally1up]

C THOMAS Howell in Soul Man

 

[AC_Exotic]

Does a man who thinks he's actually a woman or vice versa have mental problems? I just want to be sure I understand this issue.

Yes, according to Johns Hopkins University.

 

[shortbus]

 

[The Duke]

Tiger Woods is actually more Asian-American than Black or White...and he is more white than black, and as much Native American as black.

Yet all you ever hear is Tiger is African-American. When in truth he should be referred to primarily as Asian-American. He also has Native American roots, but again that is totally ignored by the media. Where's the outrage?

Same true for Obama. Half white, yet exclusively referred to as African American.

--

From a 1994 LA Times article:

"Actually, I'm three-fourths Asian," Woods said. "I'm mostly Thai and a little Chinese. And I'm one-fourth black. When I go to Thailand, they call me a Thai. In this country, I'm called a black. So it is a little confusing."

Tiger's father, Earl, spelled it out more specifically:

"Tiger is really one-half Thai, one-quarter Chinese, one-eighth white, one-sixteenth Shawnee American Indian and one-sixteenth black."

 

[hollywood]

Tiger Woods is actually more Asian-American than Black or White...and he is more white than black, and as much Native American as black.

Yet all you ever hear is Tiger is African-American. When in truth he should be referred to primarily as Asian-American. He also has Native American roots, but again that is totally ignored by the media. Where's the outrage?

Same true for Obama. Half white, yet exclusively referred to as African American.

--

From a 1994 LA Times article:

"Actually, I'm three-fourths Asian," Woods said. "I'm mostly Thai and a little Chinese. And I'm one-fourth black. When I go to Thailand, they call me a Thai. In this country, I'm called a black. So it is a little confusing."

Tiger's father, Earl, spelled it out more specifically:

"Tiger is really one-half Thai, one-quarter Chinese, one-eighth white, one-sixteenth Shawnee American Indian and one-sixteenth black."

The Duke,

Honestly, there's an historic reason why people of mixed races, are often referred to as black or "African American" and that's due to the old racial classification system used in the south known as the "One Drop" rule. If you had even "one drop" of black blood you were officially designated as a "negro" and subject to anti-miscegenation laws and other racially restrictive laws of the era.

Many States had such laws on the book, which made you "officially" black, with ranges from "one drop" to "octoroon" (1/8).

Personally, I really dislike the terminology "African American" as it is often completely misappropriate. My example, when Nelson Mandela visited the US, he was often described as being "African-American" - WTF? But, someone from Morocco, Algeria, etc., who is a naturalized US Citizen, would (unless they have black features) would not be described by that term, even it they fit the meaning of "African-American" to a tee.

 

[MegaPoke]

Was reading an article about some dude in Louisiana who is running for office (didn't see the pics). He is getting criticized for attending a costume party, a few years back, dressed as Tiger Woods. Apparently, he had makeup on his face to make him look more like Tiger and less like a person of Caucasian persuasion.

I understand the significance of blackface makeup during the times of segregation and widespread bigotry in this country. I know that many comedians applied blackface and degraded African Americans. I get it.

But, is blackface ever OK? I remember the movie Silver Streak, where Gene Wilder disguised himself as a black man. Would anyone in Hollywood make that movie today, or is it too much of a hot button topic?

Basically, I don't understand why it is OK for a white person to go to a party dressed up like Moses or Richard Nixon (with makeup, fake facial hair, etc), but not dressed up like Tiger Woods or the Reverend Jesse Jackson (unless you do it without applying brown/black makeup)?

It is one thing to apply blackface so that you can make fun of black people. But, "imitation is the best form of flattery". Should it ever be OK for a white person to pretend to be a black person? Is it possible to do it in a tasteful way, where there is no ill intention?

With all that said, I would never, ever do it, due to the risk of it haunting me for the rest of my life. To me, it just doesn't seem that it should be quite as much of a stigma as it is.

Of course it should be ok in the right non malicious or satirical context.