Big 12 Expansion

[J. Carl]

Just a heads up. The Big 12 expansion is almost a done deal. It would bring the six Western Wrestling Conference teams into the Big 12 for wrestling, effective next season, making a nice 10-team conference/qualifying tournament. It's a two-phase process. Two of the three phases are complete. The conference office feels very good about Phase 3 being accomplished. I believe it is the final approval by the university CEOs.
If this goes as planned, good news for Big 12 and college wrestling in general.

 

[Cowguy]

Not thrilled. Was really hoping MAC or EWL.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[chasepollard]

Let's just make a deal with the Pac already...

 

[april racer]

The PAC would be nice, but this is a move in the right direction. We could still try to add the PAC teams as well.

 

[Wheeling Cowboy]

oh boy

 

[buf87]

Typically WWC doesn't get much more than the conference champ in and in certain cases just because the champ get a bid and never really earned an actual allocation. I will benefit the WWC guys much more than the Big 12. More spots for them to steal

 

[buf87]

In 2012 - WWC had 17 bids and 4 weights only had 1
In 2013 - WWC had 16 bids and 7 weights only had 1 (125 had 4)
In 2014 - WWC had 15 bids and 6 weights only had 1

Not sure how many of those single bids weights were actually earned

 

[ISUChip]

2012: Pac-12 19, WWC 17
2013: Pac-12 21, WWC 16
2014: Pac-12 17, WWC 15

Over the past 3 seasons, the P12 has earned a total of 9 more allocations than the WWC. So while a partnership with the P12 would be nice in brand name and recognition, is it really that much above the WWC in terms of actual wrestling?

Other thoughts, in no particular order:
*You have to have someone who's actually willing to partner with you.
*The Pac-12 already has non Pac-12 schools making up haIf of its roster.
*If the Big 12 and Pac-12 combined into one wrestling conference, do you think either league would back down on the "naming rights"?
*WWC makes the most sense geographically, and therefore financially. I could see "travel partner" scenarios being drawn up. ADs always looking out for the bottom line.
*Who's to say that WWC schools won't improve if their coaches have a "You will wrestle in the Big 12" card to play in the recruiting process?

 

[buf87]

I agree in that sense Chip. NDSU & SDSU seem to be trying to improve.

And I think the ACC/B12 merger fell apart because of naming rights.

Where does Fresno State go for a qualifier? I assume the Pac 12

 

[ISUChip]

You'd think that Fresno would be in the Pac-12. Only arrangement that makes sense for them.

One other thing...looks like UNI's move to the MAC had basically no affect on the number of WWC allocations. Granted, there may be some difference in how many of those 1-bid weights are actually 0-bid weights, but big picture it wasn't a huge dropoff.

 

[RNGwaddie]

Expansion

Members
Air Force Falcons (2007-present)
North Dakota State Bison (2007-present)
Northern Colorado Bears (2007-present)
South Dakota State Jackrabbits (2007-present)
Utah Valley Wolverines (2007-present)
Wyoming Cowboys (2007-present)

Former Members
Fresno State Bulldogs (never competed, dropped program)
Northern Iowa Panthers (2007-2012)

 

[Orangebomber]

Re: Expansion

Originally posted by RNGwaddie:
Members
Air Force Falcons (2007-present)
North Dakota State Bison (2007-present)
Northern Colorado Bears (2007-present)
South Dakota State Jackrabbits (2007-present)
Utah Valley Wolverines (2007-present)
Wyoming Cowboys (2007-present)

Former Members
Fresno State Bulldogs (never competed, dropped program)
Northern Iowa Panthers (2007-2012)

There are some good wrestling schools on that list. At least in recent times. Would have been nice to get Northern Iowa.

 

[oberebo]

Re: Expansion

We have to start with what we can get. I too am disappointed we did not corral Northern Iowa and Missouri but to put together this coalition I am sure the difficulties were great due to different conferences, Athletic directors etc. Maybe we can add other teams in the future and Fresno State has just announced they are reinstating wrestling.

 

[Harleycowboy]

This works well for me, being my 2 favorite wrestling schools (the cowboys and the bison). I will most likely be going to these conference tournaments.

 

[J. Carl]

buf87: it would be hard for the WWC to "steal" spots from the Big 12, which has no spots. Right now, all Big 12 wrestlers must qualify as at large selections.

 

[ISUChip]

Originally posted by J. Carl:

buf87: it would be hard for the WWC to "steal" spots from the Big 12, which has no spots. Right now, all Big 12 wrestlers must qualify as at large selections.

I think what he's saying is that if the two leagues combine for a qualifying event, there will be more chances for "WWC" wrestlers to steal spots that were earned by "Big 12" wrestlers because (a) the Big 12 guys will earn the most allocations for the combined qualifier and (b) several weights that were 1-bid for the WWC (due to the automatic spot for the champion) will become 0-bid.

 

[buf87]

Correct ISUChip. Sorry might have stated in a little confusing J Carl.

 

[NYWRESTLER94]

im a little confused so if the expansion does in fact go through wouldn't it mean that the Big 12 would have automatic allocations once again? even if the WWC teams are relatively weaker as teams i'd think the 4 Big 12 teams do well enough that all it would take for the Big 12 to be an official qualifier again would be just to make it a bigger tournament and NDSU and SDSU are definitely improving with Air Force having some quality wrestlers as well

 

[buf87]

Yes the Big12/WWC would be a regional qualifier for the NCAA tourney. Big 12 had to do it, just wish they could have got it done with ACC, but at least it's not with South Conference. I do believe NDSU and SDSU are going to get better. Hopefully Troy Nickerson can get a few guys going at Northern Colorado (but I think they only get 5 scholarship to work with)

 

[osu83]

Coach Smith talked about this expansion during his radio show a few weeks ago. If I remember correctly, he said he has been working on this for 5 years and that in addition to six teams (now we know they're the WWC) joining the Big 12 for a wrestling conference, two more teams may join.

 

[SetonHallPirate]

Originally posted by osu83:
Coach Smith talked about this expansion during his radio show a few weeks ago. If I remember correctly, he said he has been working on this for 5 years and that in addition to six teams (now we know they're the WWC) joining the Big 12 for a wrestling conference, two more teams may join.

I do wonder if that's Grand Canyon's eventual destination...

 

[J. Carl]

buf87: I wasn't confused at all. right now the Big 12 has NO qualifying spots. None. All has to be done individually. The Gold and Silvers, this year, can't lock up a spot by placing in a certain spot in a conference tournament. Next year they can. With the new conference it will have many automatic spots. I seriously doubt if fewer Big 12 wrestlers will qualify for the tournament next year than this because of the change.

 

[AFHawk86]

Good news. Not perfect but definitely a positive step.

 

[buf87]

J carl -I understand that by placing in the Big12 quarantees no spots. I understand that spots that guys like Kindig, Dieringer, Gadson, Moreno, etc earn, are all going to be placed in the at large pool and after the tourney, these guys are going to need to be selected as at large bids to the tourney.

In the WWC at 133 & 141, it is possible that only the champion is going to get a berth and not because they earn one, but because the champion automatically gets in. So when we combined those situations, the merged conference might add 6 wrestlers, but not gain any additional spots.

I think I understand how it works. Might not be explaining it the best. And I know you know how it works. And definitely not trying to argue. I think the Big 12 needed to do this, just hoped the ACC merger would have worked.

 

[J. Carl]

Well, if the new 10-team Big 12 has only one gold or silver going into the conference tournament, it would be hard to justify it having more than one automatic qualifier (the champion).

Update on the merger. I've been told by the Big 12 that the announcement should come early in March. That's assuming nothing gets in the way. And that's not anticipated.

 

[ISUChip]

Originally posted by osu83:
If I remember correctly, he said he has been working on this for 5 years and that in addition to six teams (now we know they're the WWC) joining the Big 12 for a wrestling conference, two more teams may join.

I can see #11, but have a hard time picking out who #12 might be.

 

[buf87]

Somebody mentioned Grand Canyon (I think that is who is moving to D1) and Fresno State?

 

[ISUChip]

Looking ahead...taking the latest CP rankings and combining the Big 12/WWC. Assume that 27 would be the cutoff for an allocation.

125 (7)
8. Klimara (OSU)
12. Martinez (AF)
T13. Cox (WYO)
T13. Rodriguez (NDSU)
19. Tolbert (UVU)
T20. Moisey (WVU)
22. Andrews (NCOL)
T31. Millhof (OKL)
T31. Larson (ISU)

133 (3)
2. Hall (ISU)
3. Brewer (OKL)
24. Rauser (UVU)
31. Harding (OSU)

141 (3)
14. Morales (WVU)
16. Heil (OSU)
23. Rodriguez (ISU)
29. Bengtson (NDSU)

149 (2)
4. Kindig (OSU)
13. Moreno (ISU)
29. Kocer (SDSU)
32. Elliott (WYO)

157 (3)
7. Pack (SDSU)
16. DeAngelis (OKL)
20. Collica (OSU)
31. Colgan (WYO)

165 (5)
1. Dieringer (OSU)
5. Moreno (ISU)
17. Stafford (AFA)
23. Friesth (WYO)
24. Polkowske (NCOL)
T30. Glass (OKL)

174 (5)
12. Crutchmer (OSU)
13. Weatherman (ISU)
14. McCulley (WYO)
18. Reed (OKL)
T24. Julson (NDSU)

184 (4)
8. Zillmer (NDSU)
15. Weatherspoon (ISU)
16. Boyd (OSU)
19. Stroh (WYO)
28. Scheffel (WVU)

197 (4)
2. Gadson (ISU)
15. Woods (WYO)
24. Rotert (SDSU)
27. Smith (WVU)

HWT (4)
5. Marsden (OSU)
9. Larson (OKL)
15. Knutson (NDSU)
21. Harris (WYO)
32. Everard (SDSU)