This time with Japan.
https://moneymaven.io/mishtalk/econ...-this-time-with-japan-mlxt8tsK60qNaLYGtLFBDw/
https://moneymaven.io/mishtalk/econ...-this-time-with-japan-mlxt8tsK60qNaLYGtLFBDw/
And The (Trade War) Beat Goes On
- Thread starter Ponca Dan
- Start date
Sounds like a legitimate, good-faith negotiation is occurring. Both sides have wants, both sides expect some capitulation, and both sides have their feet planted against certain concessions. Why is this a referendum on Trump?
Bump.
@Ponca Dan - do you have any new words of wisdom for President Trump?
Took less than 72 hours for you and your source to be fake news. Any other hot takes about how smart you are and how Donald Trump is stupid and lucky to be president? Please explain
@Ponca Dan - do you have any new words of wisdom for President Trump?
Took less than 72 hours for you and your source to be fake news. Any other hot takes about how smart you are and how Donald Trump is stupid and lucky to be president? Please explain
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@Ponca Dan - any other words on this subject. Your hot take was spot on!
Not actually my “hot take,” but rather Mike Shedlock’s, who is a person I find very interesting and often correct in his analysis.
I would council you to tap the brakes just a little. One thing we should all have learned by now is Trump’s public proclamations are often not a true picture of reality. They said they’re still working out the details, and as we all should know when Donald Trump is involved you’d better know all the fine details.
I would also add if you think I want an economic catastrophe just so I can say “I told you so” you don’t understand me at all. I hope all the hype about the trade deal is as advertised. I hope the deal helps American farmers who are reeling from Trump’s meddling. If it strengthens our economy I’m for it.
So did you agree with Mike Shedlock when posting the article or not? Or just another negative Trump article for shits and giggles (add 1 more to your list of hundreds/thousands on this site)?
You always have something negative to say about Trump even when something good happens or is in the works.
Lastly, not sure why you added the last paragraph. I don't believe you want a recession that will hurt Americans.
I have an extremely limited understanding about the nuts and bolts of trade deals. Shedlock’s knowledge is vastly superior. He is frequently spot on in his assessments. I’m not trying to dodge your question, I just don’t know what the right answer is. He said Trump had painted himself into a corner, and gave examples, expressly stating that Trump would have to make concessions if he wants to make a deal. Did Trump make concessions? I don’t know. Do you?
I think you misunderstand my criticisms of Trump. Unlike our leftist/Democratic friends on this board I am delighted he beat Hillary. As such I reject the notion you seem to have that I suffer from TDS. But unlike you and many others on this board I do not think because Hillary is bad therefore Donald Trump is good. My criticisms of him are almost universally criticisms not of him personally, but rather his nationalist/protectionist economic policies. I am a radical advocate of free market capitalism, and I deplore the subtly diluted philosophical economic fascism which nationalism/protectionism is. Trump’s economic policies are the first step down a very dangerous path IMO, and I am not shy about saying so.
Many people on this board have opted for the “my team vs the other team” scenario, and “I’ll defend my team to the bitter end without even considering what it is my team is proposing.” That has always struck me as somewhat juvenile. It’s fine when you’re talking sports (I’ll hate all things OU sports till the day I die), but it is a formula for disaster when you blindly put your fate in the hands of politicians of either team.
I will continue to make comments and post links that have negative things to say about Trump’s policies when I think they are things that need to be dispensed. The great thing about this board is you can put me on ignore if you like. I would prefer, of course, to engage you in calm and rational discussion about the topic, leaving the insults out. Either way I doubt I can be bullied into keeping my mouth shut.
You say you want a free market but are highly critical of Trump when he's working to other countries to trade with us in a true free market. You say you are against protectionism but don't seem to have a problem with the protectionism of China, the EU and other countries that place tariffs on our products coming into their countries. Seems to me Trump is trying to do exactly what you say you support but you criticize his every move.
Yes, I am highly critical of his blatantly anti-capitalistic economic methods. Invoking anti-capitalist protectionism as a means to foment capitalism is counterproductive, downright daft.
Where do you get the idea I “don’t have a problem” with other countries’ protectionism/tariffs? Both are profoundly anti-capitalist, and as such I think those countries are as daft as Trump. Tariffs are a tax on the citizens/consumers of the citizens under the thumb of the government imposing them. It is counterproductive for our government to tax us with tariffs as a means to make China, et al, quit taxing their citizens. Counterproductive is too tepid, it’s patently illogical.
If as you say consumers are paying higher prices because of tariffs we would see that in inflation numbers but we don't. Inflation isn't a problem right now due to China manipulating it's currency and the EU implementing negative interest rates to try and get Trump to accept the current trade arrangement, which is highly unfair to the US. What we are seeing is a massive inflow of investment capital here in the states which is good for our economy.
While you are thinking short term, I am thinking long term. What is better for the US the same trade imbalance we have seen where China reaps a half a trillion a year from the US or a trade agreement that is more balanced?
https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/foreign-direct-investment
American farmers aren't reeling, hurting yes reeling ah no, and in general still support Trump. They understand that to ensure their way of life and be able to hold on to their land/viability for generations to come trade has to result in better bottom lines for the family farmer. Interesting take from this article https://thefederalist.com/2019/08/20/farmers-arent-going-abandon-trump-trade-war/
The only Farm group I saw that came out with a blanket condemnation was the National Farmers Union......here is a bit about them
"The election of Barack Obama in November 2008 was largely seen as a win for NFU, who had graded each of the candidates based on their policies. Obama received a perfect 100 percent rating, based on his support of the 2008 Farm Bill and a renewable fuel standard. On the other hand, the organization gave John McCain a grade of zero percent, in part because he was in favor of reducing subsidies for ethanol and food products. The NFU typically supports liberal policies, such as increased government and environmental regulation, anti-trust activities, and social safety net programs."
So no real surprise they came out against Trump's policies.
I look at history and observe that societies which practice capitalism/free markets (or a close proximity to it) have become prosperous, while societies that practice government intervention (whether it be a version of socialism or nationalism/fascism) seem to have initial success followed by stagnation and eventual ruin. You say you are looking at the "long run." Which society has success in the long run? I have confidence in the superiority of free people living in a free society making personal economic decisions free from the heavy hand of government. Too many people, I assume you included, seem to lack such confidence.
Please explain in explicit terms how a trade imbalance with China has harmed America. Are you thinking "America" just bundles up "half a trillion a year" and ships it over to "China" without getting anything in return?
The economist, Don Boudreaux, editor of the website, Café Hayek, explains with great patience that exports are the price paid for imports. It is to our advantage (as a nation) to import more than we export. It is harmful for our government - regardless of who is president - to intervene in the private transactions of American individuals and companies. That's what upsets the "balance."
Funny how liberal groups are against gov't subsidies for industries other than their own.
That all works great when all parties are on the same page. Only problem we have is one party (China) refuses o comply with the free market principle. Your way we do nothing and allow China to continue it's desires to dominate the world economy. Trump's way we stop the Chinese unfair trade practice and force them to trade fairly with the rest of the world.
How is China’s way dominating the world's economy? Virtually every Trump supporter on this site guarantees the Trump will crush China. How is that possible if China is the dominate economic model.
I repeat you are showing complete lack of confidence in the ability for free people operating as free markets to “dominate” despite the historical record that governments which intervene in their economies have never succeeded, have a 100% failure rate. Why should the US adopt a proven failed tactic? That’s like trying to fix a broken nose by breaking your jaw. Insisting we follow other countries’ tariff policies is insisting we harm ourselves in order to punish them for harming themselves.
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Please do not put words in my mouth, that just taints the conversation. I said trying to dominate the world economy, not dominating the economy, big difference. Obviously you have not been paying attention to the world market or you would know that China has been making plays for key natural resources around the globe along with key parts of infrastructure like a the largest Port of the Panama Canal.
https://www.thetrumpet.com/13973-china-buys-panamas-largest-port
https://qz.com/africa/1605497/belt-and-road-africa-mineral-rich-nations-export-mostly-to-china/
Where is China getting the resources to do all of this? Might be the half trillion dollar trade imbalance they've had with the US for years. Are tariffs the way to go about fighting China attempts to control the world economy? I don't think anyone can accurately answer that question, especially those that look at things through a lens with a political spectrum. All I know is Trump is trying to do something and that something is having a negative effect on China, that's a good thing IMO.
Didn’t mean to put words in your mouth, it was a simple misinterpretation, that’s all. But the sentiment remains the same. You are terrified a command economy run by a ruthless dictatorial communist regime will overpower a society of free thinking entrepreneurs, in spite of over a century of evidence to the contrary. Free people should never be willing to relinquish their liberty to anyone, not one iota. Free people attack a problem from every angle, whike a command economy stagnates behind the dictates of one or a handful of men. Command economies by their very nature cannot survive for long. A society filled with free thinking people knows that (or at least should know it). Handing your liberty over to someone who
promises he’s going to protect your liberty will
lead to certain disaster. I don’t necessarily think DJT has designs on becoming a dictator like they have in China. But his policies put this country on that path. Twenty or thirty years from now the idea that America is the land of the free may be a distant memory. And it will all come about as a succession of leaders promise people pie in the sky.
promises he’s going to protect your liberty will
lead to certain disaster. I don’t necessarily think DJT has designs on becoming a dictator like they have in China. But his policies put this country on that path. Twenty or thirty years from now the idea that America is the land of the free may be a distant memory. And it will all come about as a succession of leaders promise people pie in the sky.
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