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Amazon Buring.....media narrative misleading

windriverrange

Heisman Candidate
Gold Member
Jul 7, 2008
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Catoosa
I thought it was interesting that the media stated it was a record "number" of fires. Not a record number of acres burned or some other metric that actually measures impact.
 
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Are we actually suggesting that the fires in the Amazon are not happening? This is an awfully weird story to have been imagined all of a sudden with a bunch of pictures proving it's going on.

Global temps are rising and glaciers are receding etc. and it's fine to debate the human impact of these changes, but denying simple facts is not a good look to bring to the debate.
 
Are we actually suggesting that the fires in the Amazon are not happening? This is an awfully weird story to have been imagined all of a sudden with a bunch of pictures proving it's going on.

Global temps are rising and glaciers are receding etc. and it's fine to debate the human impact of these changes, but denying simple facts is not a good look to bring to the debate.

I'm not denying that they are occurring. I'm simply questioning that these fires are significantly different in volume or magnatude to the forest fires experienced nearly every year in the Amazon forest. When the media uses 1 year comparisons (this year vs. last) or esoteric measures (# of fires vs. # of acres burned) as their basis for panic, I can't help but wonder if I'm being intentionally mislead.
 
I'm not denying that they are occurring. I'm simply questioning that these fires are significantly different in volume or magnatude to the forest fires experienced nearly every year in the Amazon forest. When the media uses 1 year comparisons (this year vs. last) or esoteric measures (# of fires vs. # of acres burned) as their basis for panic, I can't help but wonder if I'm being intentionally mislead.
Well, where there's smoke......
 
Are we actually suggesting that the fires in the Amazon are not happening? This is an awfully weird story to have been imagined all of a sudden with a bunch of pictures proving it's going on.

Global temps are rising and glaciers are receding etc. and it's fine to debate the human impact of these changes, but denying simple facts is not a good look to bring to the debate.

Tons not denying they are occurring, just that the magnitude and overall impact on the actual "rainforest" is not true since a large number of these fires are on land that has already been cleared and is being burned to clear for this years crops.

Here is a good link to help cut through fact vs fiction, https://www.accuweather.com/en/weat...wont-tell-you-about-the-amazon-fires/70009150

Average temperatures rise and fall, glaciers expand and recede all part of natural cycles. This story fits into the narrative that "since the rainforests are burning down and they, especially the Amazon, are the lungs of the world for their ability to absorb CO2, then given their imminent destruction by man, we need to double down on a carbon free energy systems, since the forests can't possibly survive this onslaught.

One other thing is that NASA (and others) are probably using the raster variant of GPS modeling (the opposite is Vector which forms patterns line isotherms or contour lines). Raster models look like giant sheets of engineering paper so that if any point in that square shows up as a "fire" the whole square is coded to the color they program in (this case its orange) without regard to fire size or if it is really even a fire. It doesn't matter if the fire is 1 acre or 1,000 acres, so when you see these maps you have to understand that the orange blobs don't represent a total covered area of fire. It's much like magnifying a picture from a digital camera, if you magnify the picture enough times it becomes out of focus and you start to see squares developing in place of a recognizable picture.

I was living in Jackson Hole when the Yellowstone fires occurred in 1988. From the reports you would think the whole place burned down but in reality most "forest" type fires don't burn everything in their path, they create a mosaic of burned and unburned areas. If you have had the privileged of driving through Yellowstone in the last 15 years you would see new growth right next to old stands most of the time that was the exact fire line where the new growth represents areas that were burned and the old growth is areas that were not even though they were adjacent to each other.
 
Are we actually suggesting that the fires in the Amazon are not happening? This is an awfully weird story to have been imagined all of a sudden with a bunch of pictures proving it's going on.

Global temps are rising and glaciers are receding etc. and it's fine to debate the human impact of these changes, but denying simple facts is not a good look to bring to the debate.
Try reading this. It might give you a proper perspective on how we are fed the news.

http://coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2...tupid-climate-policy-ie-ethanol-mandates.html
 
Try reading this. It might give you a proper perspective on how we are fed the news.

http://coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2...tupid-climate-policy-ie-ethanol-mandates.html
Thanks, but that didn't give me a proper perspective on anything.

Anyone arguing that forests on fire is anything but bad is a complete idiot. And there's no doubt that a lot of the Amazon is on fire. To quote the article:

"It is close to a 20-year high in the Amazonas region but much closer to average in the 9 other measured Amazon regions."

Again, it's not helpful to deny simple facts in some weird effort to argue that climate change isn't real or something. The whole scientific world didn't conspire with the media 30 years ago just to start messing with conservatives.
 
Thanks, but that didn't give me a proper perspective on anything.

Anyone arguing that forests on fire is anything but bad is a complete idiot. And there's no doubt that a lot of the Amazon is on fire. To quote the article:

"It is close to a 20-year high in the Amazonas region but much closer to average in the 9 other measured Amazon regions."

Again, it's not helpful to deny simple facts in some weird effort to argue that climate change isn't real or something. The whole scientific world didn't conspire with the media 30 years ago just to start messing with conservatives.
This is a classic case of you hearing what you want to hear and disregarding the rest. The data in the article clearly shows the hype is overblown. For some reason I suspect you stopped reading at the sentence you quoted.
 
Thanks, but that didn't give me a proper perspective on anything.

Anyone arguing that forests on fire is anything but bad is a complete idiot. And there's no doubt that a lot of the Amazon is on fire. To quote the article:

"It is close to a 20-year high in the Amazonas region but much closer to average in the 9 other measured Amazon regions."

Again, it's not helpful to deny simple facts in some weird effort to argue that climate change isn't real or something. The whole scientific world didn't conspire with the media 30 years ago just to start messing with conservatives.

Tons, in a lot of cases forest fires are actually good.....many of the conifers in North America need fire for seed germination. Without allowing fires to burn the understory, the understory builds up and creates fire intensities that are much worse than if the understory had been regularly burned off. Have to admit am not that familiar with rainforests and don't know what if any beneficial effects fire has on that particular ecosystem. Clear-cutting is a much larger problem than fires, especially since the vast majority of these fires are areas that have long since been clear-cut and are now crop land. Fires also kill invasive/destructive insects which if left unchecked can and will destroy swatch of forest bigger than any forest fire will burn off.

To say "a lot of the amazon is on fire" is just not accurate btw. Please read the article I posted above for some additional info. I am not and have never been in favor of wanton destruction of the forests, prairies, wetlands, artic or any other unique ecosystem as it benefits nothing or no-one. But a rational and accurate consensus has to be arrived at without adding in every catastrophic like adjective in the known universe.

One ABC reporter fly over the area and said that 2.5 million acres had been burned....sorry not buying it. That would be a swath of 62.5 x 62.5 miles completely burned out with no accounting for the natural mosaic pattern fires create. Why is there so much attention being paid to the Amazon fires when there are a multitude more burning in Africa and not a word has been mentioned about those? Is it because Bolsonaro is president? Is it because no one cares about Africa? I have my suspicions but who knows.
 
This is a classic case of you hearing what you want to hear and disregarding the rest. The data in the article clearly shows the hype is overblown. For some reason I suspect you stopped reading at the sentence you quoted.
LOL I want to hear that the forest is on fire?

Your link was full of bias and conjecture, yet somehow didn't refute the prime point you were trying to make.

Do you know what the words "closer to the average" means? That's code language for "higher than the average but not as high as the place with major raging fires at a 20 year high". Taken in totality, these numbers are throttling the narrative you really want to believe.

Now run along and check on John Bolton, I'll bet he's kicking a kitten somewhere.
 
Thanks, but that didn't give me a proper perspective on anything.

Anyone arguing that forests on fire is anything but bad is a complete idiot. And there's no doubt that a lot of the Amazon is on fire. To quote the article:

"It is close to a 20-year high in the Amazonas region but much closer to average in the 9 other measured Amazon regions."

Again, it's not helpful to deny simple facts in some weird effort to argue that climate change isn't real or something. The whole scientific world didn't conspire with the media 30 years ago just to start messing with conservatives.

I think one of the issues here is perspective. I'm not sure where you are reading anyone on this board arguing that the fire is a good thing or even not real. The statements are that this is a relatively normal occurrence and is being blown WAY out-of-proportion as being some extreme event.
 
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I think one of the issues here is perspective. I'm not sure where you are reading anyone on this board arguing that the fire is a good thing or even not real. The statements are that this is a relatively normal occurrence and is being blown WAY out-of-proportion as being some extreme event.
Probably the thread title.

So I get on the right side of this, is it somehow more right-woke to think every bit of potentially climate-related news is fake? Seems like a good way to develop a bias that prevents you from really ever learning anything new on the topic by dismissing it because of the headline. That's no more rational than Up believing every scare tactic emitted from the left.
 
Probably the thread title.

So I get on the right side of this, is it somehow more right-woke to think every bit of potentially climate-related news is fake? Seems like a good way to develop a bias that prevents you from really ever learning anything new on the topic by dismissing it because of the headline. That's no more rational than Up believing every scare tactic emitted from the left.

First, note that I have a healthy skepticism of the media in general. Sorry that they've done nothing in recent years to dissuade that opinion. That said, read my original statement that clearly stated why I questioned the legitimate extremism of this story. If you missed it, I'll requote it here:

"When the media uses 1 year comparisons (this year vs. last) or esoteric measures (# of fires vs. # of acres burned) as their basis for panic, I can't help but wonder if I'm being intentionally mislead."

If the media had been able to actually state that a 'record' number of acres had burned, or that this was the worst damage in 20 years, I truly believe they would have. Instead they were VERY selective in their statistics use and I won't apologize that that raised red flags in regards to my skepticism.
 
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