Is intervention worth the cost?
https://www.fff.org/2017/05/24/question-every-parent-u-s-foreign-interventionism-worth/
https://www.fff.org/2017/05/24/question-every-parent-u-s-foreign-interventionism-worth/
A Question For Every Parent
- Thread starter Ponca Dan
- Start date
violence begets violence begets violence begets violence begets, etc, etc, etc...
I've been thinking about this a little bit. Question: why did the Allies decide to open Isreal to Jewish settlement in the first place? When was it, 1947, 1948? Why didn't the USA take them in? There were less than a million of them, I believe. 850,000 +/-. The population of the US in 1948 was under 150 million. We certainly had room for them. And when you see how they have turned that desert into an oasis you have to wonder what advancement/treasure they might have given us in the last 70 years. And think of the treasure we have expended on protecting Isreal, what we could have saved. There would be no reason for the ME countries to turn to terrorism. We wouldn't be seeing the mass migrations we're witnessing. How much better off the world would be today if the USA had taken them in instead of dropping them in the middle of hostile territory. What a shame. Why didn't we do it? Antisemitism?
Interventionism - as in regime change is not worth it.
Interventionism - as in anything up to and including literally nuking ISIS is worth it. In modern history there has never been a clearer side of history to be on including WW2.
Yeah, but Zionism...
I think a very bad understanding of Christian scripture and antisemitism both had a lot to do with it.
My dad always said we should have just invited them all to live in Wyoming.
This is not where they wanted to come and after not destroying the death camps during WW II the world owed them a homeland.
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You might want to read this.
http://militantlibertarian.org/2017/05/18/trumps-trip-to-riyadh-offers-left-and-right-common-ground/
Israel is what makes the whole situation especially dicey.
It is easy to say, "let's just leave the M.E. to deal with their own shit". But, it wouldn't be long before one (or more) of those countries turned their attention to wiping Israel off the map. Israel is one of our strongest allies on the planet. We would likely get sucked right back in (in a big way) eventually.
It is easy to say, "let's just leave the M.E. to deal with their own shit". But, it wouldn't be long before one (or more) of those countries turned their attention to wiping Israel off the map. Israel is one of our strongest allies on the planet. We would likely get sucked right back in (in a big way) eventually.
I'm sure the people of Wyoming would have appreciated your dad's generosity! (Blue)
Just FYI, it is easy to make a post blue. At the top of the window where you are typing a post, you will see a B for bold, I for Italics and U for underline. Just to the right is a teardrop, which allows you to change font color.
Let's discuss the conception of modern Israel.
Were the zionists motivated by the territory because of its sacred meaning? Does Israel with specific borders need to exist before Jesus can come back in Christian theology?
Where did the huge amount of money in the Jewish national fund come from? Did you know the jnf started purchasing and developing Palestinian lands before WWI? Was land purchased fairly? Do we care if it was or not?
Did the us feel guilty for not liberating the camps when they found out about them?
Did the Zionist organizers have the same motivations as the masses that came in the known "waves?"
What a crazy time for Jews to feel safer surrounded completely by muslims as opposed to staying in Europe.
As I have said many times I find it curious the us supports Israel through every means possible because if the shit goes down it happens on their doorstep, not ours or Western Europe. We dangle them to the wolves at arms length.
Were the zionists motivated by the territory because of its sacred meaning? Does Israel with specific borders need to exist before Jesus can come back in Christian theology?
Where did the huge amount of money in the Jewish national fund come from? Did you know the jnf started purchasing and developing Palestinian lands before WWI? Was land purchased fairly? Do we care if it was or not?
Did the us feel guilty for not liberating the camps when they found out about them?
Did the Zionist organizers have the same motivations as the masses that came in the known "waves?"
What a crazy time for Jews to feel safer surrounded completely by muslims as opposed to staying in Europe.
As I have said many times I find it curious the us supports Israel through every means possible because if the shit goes down it happens on their doorstep, not ours or Western Europe. We dangle them to the wolves at arms length.
A lot of good questions.
I think that answer to this is clearly yes.
I would need more time then I currently have to discuss the rest, although my answer to a lot of them would be "I don't know".
I think that answer to this is clearly yes.
I would need more time then I currently have to discuss the rest, although my answer to a lot of them would be "I don't know".
How can we set a precedent for supporting the reclaiming of sacred territory? That sounds like endless wars. Our country had just actively violated a treaty with the native Americans at the turn of the century not giving them half the crappy land we forced them on but somehow Israel gets to open the history books and claim sacred rights? This was a topic I brought up a few times in college.
Let's get back to the original topic. Our government has murdered hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of innocent people in the name of empire building, in our name. Then it acts shocked that the survivors retaliate in the only method they see available to them. Our government whips us into a frenzy against those savage cowards. So now people we don't know hate us and we hate them. Innocent people are being used as cannon fodder in the deadly game. Is it worth the price? Do we recognize that we have been played for suckers? What do you think?
Most people don't even know where Wyoming is, which is fine for those of us who live here!
Amiright in assuming you believe that letting them run amok is preferable to bombing them?
So did Bill Clinton.
They were kind of doing it anyhow and not asking for permission - so what do you do, say "No, stay in Europe." If you ask me, the big mistake was not paying and scattering the people that were kicked out. A palestinian and his family that moves to Egypt or Iran with some jingle in his pocket instead of a "camp" right over the border is just easier to deal with for the next 70 years. Maybe it was tried. I'd be pissed too if a platoon pulled up and loaded me and my family and either shot us or moved us across a border.
It's an awful situation. There's also an argument to be made that Israel is just an excuse. If they didn't have Israel to obsess over it'd just be the sunnis or kurds or whatever. They're just gonna fight.
AC posted a bunch of stuff from the Koran. There's an argument to be made that it, like most religious directives, contain what people relate to and want to hear on some level. The history of that region is violent before and after islam, and the jews and arabs were blowing each other up in palestine well before the 1940's. Israel had their own terrorists in the early 1900's, too. Muslims had more, but the predecessors of Israel weren't exactly pacifists.
I think that our historic support of Israel is: 1. Good american politics (jewish vote) and 2. Post WWII commitment, and 3. Muslim terrorism reinforces instead of weakens that link. It's hard not to feel sorry for the enemy of your enemy. Israel never flew airplanes into our buildings.
Amiright in assuming you believe that letting them run amok is preferable to bombing them?
So did Bill Clinton.
actually slick willie lobbed a missle at them and missed
i'm sure deal teams were quite up to handling the mission to avenge the uss cole
My knowledge of history also only extends only as far back as the Clinton administration, so I can also say that 9/11 definitely happened because we didn't ever intervene in the Middle East before 9/11.Amiright in assuming you believe that letting them run amok is preferable to bombing them?
So did Bill Clinton.
There's a reason it's called the promise land...and for those who feel it was promised to them will fight to the death. Only problem is that the Jews and Arabs think it's there's.
Amiright in assuming you believe that letting them run amok is preferable to bombing them?
So did Bill Clinton.
I thought Clinton did bomb them in 99 or 2000.
