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Wichita, KS police kill an innocent man over a prank.

Maybe/hopefully something will come out that will justify the officer's action. Right now, this looks like a "go ahead, make my day" attitude from a bad cop.
 
Obviously stupid adolescent decision made by the 911 caller, and a worse decision by the cop.
That being said...
I’m no police apologist, but if I’m told by a cop with a gun drawn to put my hands up, I’m certainly not going to drop my hands to my pockets or reach for anything...
 
The person who called the 911 prank call in should be tried for murder.
 
osuengineer said:
I’m certainly not going to drop my hands to my pockets or reach for anything...
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I wonder if we'll get any body cam footage on this part. The linked article simply says "moved a hand toward the area of his waistband"; lots of room for interpretation in that wording.
 
Ostatedchi said:
The person who called the 911 prank call in should be tried for murder.
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Disagree. Should face charges, but not murder charges.
Cop should be on trial. Especially if the victim had multiple guns on him and only 1 guy fired. Whatever he did could not have been all that aggressive if only 1 guy fired his weapon.
 
Someone dies while you are committing a felony, you are up for murder. Is calling in a false 911 prank call a felony? If so, murder.

The cop should sure face some charges too. Not totally sure what. Negligent Homicide maybe?
 
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osuengineer said:
Obviously stupid adolescent decision made by the 911 caller, and a worse decision by the cop.
That being said...
I’m no police apologist, but if I’m told by a cop with a gun drawn to put my hands up, I’m certainly not going to drop my hands to my pockets or reach for anything...
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The articles I've read said the man had his hands up then lowered them to his waist, doesn't sound like that aggressive of a move. He had to be confused as hell.

I know the cops thought they were going into a dangerous situation but deadly force seems to be an over reaction from what I've read.
 
Headhunter said:
The articles I've read said the man had his hands up then lowered them to his waist, doesn't sound like that aggressive of a move. He had to be confused as hell.

I know the cops thought they were going into a dangerous situation but deadly force seems to be an over reaction from what I've read.
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If I was the cop who fired, I would say the same thing. I bet body cam comes out and shows otherwise.
 
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Been Jammin said:
Disagree. Should face charges, but not murder charges.
Cop should be on trial. Especially if the victim had multiple guns on him and only 1 guy fired. Whatever he did could not have been all that aggressive if only 1 guy fired his weapon.
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Headhunter said:
The articles I've read said the man had his hands up then lowered them to his waist, doesn't sound like that aggressive of a move. He had to be confused as hell.

I know the cops thought they were going into a dangerous situation but deadly force seems to be an over reaction from what I've read.
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Been Jammin said:
If I was the cop who fired, I would say the same thing. I bet body cam comes out and shows otherwise.
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Lots of Monday morning quarterbacking and conclusions about what “happened” based upon extremely limited actual information from someone whom have never had to respond to a shots fired/hostage situation.

I’m not saying the officers have absolutely no culpability. I’m suggesting it is way too early to be making conclusions on what charges should be filed, bets on what body cams will show, whether deadly force was justified and suggesting that the cops are lying. I’m saying I don’t know.....but neither do you.
 
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The version I saw on TV this evening seemed to basically be:

Police: "put your hands up"
Guy puts hands up
Police: "walk this way"
Guy starts towards front porch steps
Police officer fires

If someone tells you to put your hands up, then tells you to walk down a set of stairs...do you have the forethought to keep your hands up or do you instinctively lower your hands to reach for a handrail, keep your balance, etc?

I don't know if that's what happened...just something to think about.
 
jkosu said:
The version I saw on TV this evening seemed to basically be:

Police: "put your hands up"
Guy puts hands up
Police: "walk this way"
Guy starts towards front porch steps
Police officer fires

If someone tells you to put your hands up, then tells you to walk down a set of stairs...do you have the forethought to keep your hands up or do you instinctively lower your hands to reach for a handrail, keep your balance, etc?

I don't know if that's what happened...just something to think about.
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I gurarantee you lower your hands. Especially if your some innocent joes shmo who has never been in that situation. And you don’t fire for someone simply lowering their hands.
 
CowboyJD said:
Lots of Monday morning quarterbacking and conclusions about what “happened” based upon extremely limited actual information from someone whom have never had to respond to a shots fired/hostage situation.

I’m not saying the officers have absolutely no culpability. I’m suggesting it is way too early to be making conclusions on what charges should be filed, bets on what body cams will show, whether deadly force was justified and suggesting that the cops are lying. I’m saying I don’t know.....but neither do you.
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That’s fair. I will admit to a lot of wild ass speculation.

However, we do know that
-the victim was at home, watching TV with his family.
-he was unarmed
-he was surrounded by a SWAT team

Under those circumstances, it is a lot more likely that a cop makes a mistake, than it is that the victim makes an aggressive move.

Maybe his pants were sliding down and he went to pull them up. But, most people, in that situation, wouldn’t make that mistake, or would ask the cops before doing so.

Seems more realistic that one of the cops was on edge, or sneezed at the wrong time.
 
Can’t imagine why a cop might be on edge in such a situation....going to a call where the only information he has is one shot and hostages held.

Like I said, a whole lot of 20/20 hindsight and Monday morning QBing. What you now “know”, people at the scene at the time didn’t and couldn’t. In fact, they had been given a radically different set of working “facts”.
 
CowboyJD said:
Can’t imagine why a cop might be on edge in such a situation....going to a call where the only information he has is one shot and hostages held.

Like I said, a whole lot of 20/20 hindsight and Monday morning QBing. What you now “know”, people at the scene at the time didn’t and couldn’t. In fact, they had been given a radically different set of working “facts”.
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Maybe we will find out one way or another. I’m already starting my “I told you so” post. So far it looks like it will be a masterpiece.
 
Barris evidently called in a bomb threat a few years ago. Time to send a message to the "swatters".
 
CowboyJD said:
Can’t imagine why a cop might be on edge in such a situation....going to a call where the only information he has is one shot and hostages held.

Like I said, a whole lot of 20/20 hindsight and Monday morning QBing. What you now “know”, people at the scene at the time didn’t and couldn’t. In fact, they had been given a radically different set of working “facts”.
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I am fully prepared to let the facts come out before final judgement. But, there are a few facts. An innocent person was killed, at his own house, by a cop that was a safe away, with plenty of cover. The only video shown was from a safe distance away. I will be very interested in the details of the officer that fired compared with the officers that were much closer.
 
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blbronco said:
I am fully prepared to let the facts come out before final judgement. But, there are a few facts. An innocent person was killed, at his own house, by a cop that was a safe away, with plenty of cover. The only video shown was from a safe distance away. I will be very interested in the details of the officer that fired compared with the officers that were much closer.
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Definitely sounds like you haven’t already made up your mind.
 
I read a couple of articles in the Wichita Eagle this morning on what they said happened. If you're across the street, as the article said, and someone dropped their hands, why wouldn't you yell for them to get their hands up again before shooting? Maybe they did, but who knows?

As someone said above, this guy had to be so confused just innocently walking out his front door to see what was going on and walking into this.
 
CowboyJD said:
Definitely sounds like you haven’t already made up your mind.
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I haven't raised my pitchfork yet. All I know is what has been reported, and I am fully aware how going only off reported information can lead the wrong way. But I am sure the guy deserved to be shot. You know, like you do not have a leaning opinion at the moment.
 
And for the record, JD, I can think of two cases where I was ready to string up the cop. The hotel incident and the SC (I think) cop who shot the dude in the back, then made some wildass claims about a struggle that was disproven by a passerby video. That one ended up pleading out. I generally give benefit of the doubt. Even this one will get that until more facts come out, but so far, it is frustrating when a, by all accounts, innocent man is killed for no apparent reason. "Apparent" being a key word since you love parsing out every word (the lawyer in you comes out ). Yes, I am willing to hear all sides out, but early on, it does not look good. The caller is certainly the biggest d-bag, which is about the only thing we can say with absolute certainty.
 
blbronco said:
I haven't raised my pitchfork yet. All I know is what has been reported, and I am fully aware how going only off reported information can lead the wrong way. But I am sure the guy deserved to be shot. You know, like you do not have a leaning opinion at the moment.
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I absolutely do not have a leaning opinion other than no conclusions or leaning opinions should be made at this time and the presumption of innocence of an accused in a court of law.

And you just admitted you do in two different posts.
 
CowboyJD said:
I absolutely do not have a leaning opinion.

And you just admitted you do.
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So what? It can easily be swayed by more facts.
Having an early opinion does not equal me having my mind made up. I have to think that you understand that.

JD, you may not admit it, but I suspect you have an opinion that can also be swayed by more facts.
 
I know one thing. Some professions you absolutely cannot make mistakes. And this situation is one where you just can’t. Shouldn’t they have asked more questions about the situation. How do they knows tho was the supposed perp. How do they know for sure this is the right address. I know in that situation so many things would be going through my head I wouldn’t think to keep my hands up. What if you reached for a wallet to get ID. Or if you are stepping down the steps.
 
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Having an opinion based on preliminary information is not the same as prejudging.

I think most reasonable people can change their opinion when presented with additional information. I don't see anything wrong with people speculating about what happened. It opens up the conversation which might be the impetus to change their minds.
 
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Headhunter said:
Having an opinion based on preliminary information is not the same as prejudging.

I think most reasonable people can change their opinion when presented with additional information. I don't see anything wrong with people speculating about what happened. It opens up the conversation which might be the impetus to change their minds.
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regardless police shot an unarmed innocent man. Unless he yelled I am going to kill you while reaching under a trench coat I am not sure what would sway my judgement.
 
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blbronco said:
So what? It can easily be swayed by more facts.
Having an early opinion does not equal me having my mind made up. I have to think that you understand that.

JD, you may not admit it, but I suspect you have an opinion that can also be swayed by more facts.
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Suspect all you want. You’re absolutely incorrect.
 
Cops can shoot to kill by only seeing a gun or if they think a person is reaching for a weapon. In the military they can see the enemy with guns aiming at them but must wait until fired upon. One is in a free country where the citizens are suppose to have rights the other in a war zone. I think it is time to implement a policy that cops must wait until a gun is fired or aimed in there direction. Enough of this oh I thought they where reaching for a weapon. They should have to wait to until the weapon is pulled out and aimed.
 
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