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The gay mafia

HighStickHarry

MegaPoke is insane
Gold Member
Apr 21, 2006
36,177
45,401
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Being tolerant of homosexuality is no longer on the radar. You must be willing to be immersed in gay culture, have nothing to do with the Christian traditional view of marriage and teach your kids that they have no limits on who they can be attracted to.

Why is it the Greek and Romans with their open practice of homosexual sex with boys 10-20 yrs old were so biologically different than now when estimates are only 1% of the population is gay. So weird all men were born that way at that time in history. It's not like their culture shaped their choices.
 
I'm not terribly worried about this. I don't think you are either. I have so many questions.

When you imply Greeks are gay,do you mean King Leonidas "300" Greeks or brt SAE Greeks?

All I care about is Can I still call my friends "fag" when they admit to enjoying romcoms or giving Travis Ford another year?
Posted from Rivals Mobile
 
You don't find death threats and merciless harassment of a business who doesn't want to serve gay functions worrisome?

Look up Greek gymnasium and it won't be brt flexing his steroids in the mirror. Can you explain how every man was born a homosexual pedophile by current cultural standards?
 
Here's a parable for all of you:

If I owned a bakery and Kanye West wanted ne to bake a cake for him I would not refuse him service.

If he demanded I bake him a cake with words emblazened across it from one of his songs that I find personally morally objectionable I would refuse him service.

I am sure there would be other bakers that would not gladly take his business.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
 
Do the same businesses who refuse to serve gay functions refuse to serve straight adulterers?

I just don't get why people like to hide behind the bible when discussing homophobia, but then completely discard it in so many other situations that are just as relevant in scripture.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
 
I think if someone wanted a party catered in which the theme was adultery any Christian organization would treat the two events the same. But if someone came in with their mistress or same sex partner they would be treated equally as any customer.
 
Originally posted by HighStickHarry:
I think if someone wanted a party catered in which the theme was adultery any Christian organization would treat the two events the same. But if someone came in with their mistress or same sex partner they would be treated equally as any customer.
What if they wanted their 2nd wedding catered?
 
I am against threats and harassment of small business, obviously. But I think bigotry is wrong and the free market will be merciless on a business with this policy.

I'm also not sure that I believe there are a significant number of businesses who refuse service to gays in the first place. I definitely do not believe forcing a business to cater to them is going to result in good service. Nor do I believe there is a civil rights issue in that an entire service is being denied like segregation, back of the bus, separate water fountains etc. A gay-friendly alternative is a google search away.

This whole story is a bunch of hooey on both sides. The gay mafia is annoying but so are elected officials who legislate morality.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
 
Originally posted by tcpoke:
Do the same businesses who refuse to serve gay functions refuse to serve straight adulterers?

I just don't get why people like to hide behind the bible when discussing homophobia, but then completely discard it in so many other situations that are just as relevant in scripture.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
You're aware the whole thing was manufactured by the ABC affiliate out of South Bend, right?
 
Sexuality and identity have not always been linked as closely as they are today in Western society. There have been times and places in history where cultures allowed men to do things with their genitals without being labelled anything. No one said, 'This guys 'straight' because he has sex only with women, and that guy's 'gay' because he has had sex with a man.'

I really encourage you to read Gay New York by George Chauncey, for a history of how this played out between 1880 and 1930 in the U.S.

So, yes, culture can 'make people gay.' But to say that all gay people are that way because of culture is a false dichotomy. You have both: people born with a strong sexual preference for the same sex, and people who chose to have sex with other men. And that choice is partly conditioned by biology (sexual preference is a spectrum, not a binary) and what the culture will 'allow.'
 
I would think gay people would have more extravagant receptions that doesn't include pizza...
Posted from Rivals Mobile
 
Originally posted by poke2001:
I would think gay people would have more extravagant receptions that doesn't include pizza...
Posted from Rivals Mobile
This is why I first thought it was an early April Fool's joke. Lol like a gay couple would have pizza at their wedding...then again, it's Indiana .
 
Again, no gay couple was denied pizza at their wedding, or otherwise. No sign was put up or announcement made.
 
It wasn't that some gay person came in and wanted pizza for a wedding, that was the hypothetical that the owner's daughter offered up as an example of where they would use the law to refuse a potential customer.

Marshal Duncan, - I realize that this story arose from a reporter going and asking the questions, but I don't think their reporter put a gun to this woman's head and forced her to appear on camera or make a statement. She seemed to be perfectly willing to open her mouth and give her opinion. She of course had one simple option that she had every right to make (but like Ron White, apparently not the ability) and that was just keep her mouth closed. Once she decided to toss her opinion out in public, then she can't turn around and complain that others come forward and proffer their own opinions in response to her opinion.

With that being said, I think the response has been over the top to a large degree. (To certain individuals and businesses, not the stupid law that Indiana passed, which when you look at lawmakers who introduced it was clearly designed to allow for discrimination against gays by their own admission.) Kind of like I feel after a while how the response to the SAE thing actually overwhelmed the actual events and kind of became "too much." It's not like a bunch of stupid 19-20 yr old drunk college students are the equal of Sam Crow or Gov Wallace standing in the door of the local school refusing entry to black students. What the did was offensive and the "lynching" portion of their little ditty was disgusting, but the response by some in many respects wasn't much better.

But to address HSH's point - (IMHO) Supporters of gay rights, civil rights, etc., would actually be served better by turning it down a notch and keep their ammo dry for events which are truly worthy of their scorn. When you treat every little slight (like some small town Indiana pizza shop owner pontificating about under which circumstance they may refuse to serve a gay couple in a hypothetical manner) as if it were a repeat of the Matthew Shepard incident, after a while your complaints are going to fall on deaf ears. The law itself (pre-amendment) was worthy of raising a significant stink about given it's potential for being used as a tool to deny gay citizens of Indiana equal housing, public accommodations, etc. But to go equally hard against some backwoods pizza shop with such hostility, as if they poised the same ability to deny anyone equal rights under the law, really does nothing to help you advance your cause. Pointing and laughing at them would likely be a far more effective response.
 
wood, dead on about turning it down a notch.

I think a majority in this country have no issues with gay people, even gay marriage at this point in time. That said, most of us are getting tired of the over the top, shove it in your face demands. Also, private business owners should be allowed to serve whoever they want, for whatever reason they want, and yes, even if that is race. Not a religious freedom thing, just a freedom thing. The free market will sort it out...

I think many have stated this on here before, but if I were gay, I wouldn't want a homophobe doing my wedding photography, cake, catering, etc...I would want someone he really wants to be there. Same thing along race lines. If I were black, I wouldn't want to give my money to a racist. I'd rather let those idiots just be honest with their beliefs so I knew where to do business.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
 
Tv- if a straight adulterer walked into my business and said I am a straight adulterer and I want a cake to celebrate that, I would think that I would refuse his business
 
I'm all for equal rights for everyone but often these cries for equality by gays/minorities seem less about rights and more like attacks on Christians and white males.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
 
Originally posted by squeak:
I'm all for equal rights for everyone but often these cries for equality by gays/minorities seem less about rights and more like attacks on Christians and white males.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
I think they have a legit gripe, but it's not an old school civil rights issue, and a lot of people really want it to be. 99% of Americans are basically ..meh.. about all of this, I think.
 
Your rights end where mine begin, and vice versa.

You have the right to a gay marriage. I have a right to voice my opinion on that subject. One expression of that is to refuse service.
 
Chi,

Should businesses have the right to refuse service to people of a certain ethnicity or color?

(By no means am I saying you would, just trying to see if there is a separation at some point)
Posted from Rivals Mobile
 
Sure. And they have every right to let everyone know. The free market would settle a lot of this.

Let's say you don't serve veterans because you do not believe in the military. I'm okay with that. I don't think you'd stay in business very long however.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
 
The interesting thing about this whole affair is the pizza owner never said they'd refuse service to a gay person. They simply said they would not participate in a gay wedding ceremony.

I can understand that sentiment.

Besides do any of you really know a gay that would cater pizza for their wedding? Really? Really?

Progressive Nazi thought police are out of control.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
 
I agree with that Chi.

My problem is the people that try to say one form or discrimination is worse than another. Or one should be allowed and another shouldn't. I'm always surprised at how many people fall into that line of thinking.
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Absolutely private business owners should be allowed to refuse service to anyone, for any reason. They should also be allowed to allow smoking in their establishment if they choose that is right for their business.

We need much, much less government.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
 
If you want to discriminate for a prohibited basis (Race, ethnicity, religion, gay/straight, Gender, etc.) you have all the ability in the world to do so. It's just that you need to establish a private club, a private association or similar in order to do so.

If you engage in a business which is open to the public, then you've agreed to operate in a manner in which you do not discriminate against people from the above classes. If you want to discriminate against an individual because they stink, they're rude, they're loud, they're not dressed appropriately, etc., you are free to do so under all legal standards.
 
wood, I understand how the laws are currently written. I just don't agree with them. If a black guy walks into my store and is rude to me, and I kick him out, and he screams racism, I'm screwed. If we remove all of the silly protective class laws, he has no basis for lawsuit...even if it was a racist reason, which is how it should be. Again, word would get around, and true racist or bigot businesses wouldn't do very well in most cities.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
 
No, it's not a protected class in all states. Ironically, because of the backlash to the initial version of the law in Indiana, it now is....

That's also known as: being hoisted by your own petard.
 
2001,

You do realize that a woman could enter your store, scream that you propositioned her or tried to feel her up and your screwed as well? If that is so scary to you, as a store owner, perhaps you should sell the place and turn it over to someone who doesn't run in fear of every potentially bad scenario.

How many instances can you actually cite, where a business was put under for the reason you cite? How do you counter the very real and longstanding exclusion practices of many businesses when they may be the only resource for even life saving products in out of the way places? (or of life's necessities, like food?)

The "free market" solves all ills claim doesn't really cut it as there are generally plenty enough people who support discrimination (for invalid reasons) all over the place. In return for her statement that her restaurant wouldn't sell pizza to someone buying for a gay wedding, the Indiana pizza place has received somewhere around $700,000 in donations! Hell, in that instance, announcing you're willing to discriminate may actually be of benefit in terms of creating profit.

I understand what you're saying and I agree that in a "perfect world" things would work like that, but the reality points me in another direction.
 
Honestly, I believe I would get out of any sort of service industry business unless I had multiple locations and making shit tons of money. A good number of these small business owners that interface with the public take home very little money and work crazy hours/days just to get by, then have to put up with all of this BS. No thanks...
Posted from Rivals Mobile
 
How often is this kind of thing even an issue? Seems like an awful lot of hand wringing, legislative time wasted, and lawsuits over something that could easily be solved by a photographer saying, "I'm booked that weekend."

I agree in principle with businesses being able to refuse to serve whoever they want for whatever reason. However, without some of the laws that have been put into place to prevent this I'm not sure the South wouldn't still be living under 1950s Jim Crow laws.
 
Originally posted by NeekReevers:
How often is this kind of thing even an issue? Seems like an awful lot of hand wringing, legislative time wasted, and lawsuits over something that could easily be solved by a photographer saying, "I'm booked that weekend."

I agree in principle with businesses being able to refuse to serve whoever they want for whatever reason. However, without some of the laws that have been put into place to prevent this I'm not sure the South wouldn't still be living under 1950s Jim Crow laws.
Jim Crow laws enforced and dictated segregation. Even in the South in the 1950s, there were businesses willing an interested in catering to integrated customers....especially in the entertainment industries.

I'm all for anti-discrimination laws being applied towards all government action including hiring. They may have even been needed to apply to "public accomodations" at some point in our history. I realize that racism still exists in this country, but minorities and non-racists now have more than sufficient market power to fight the battle without government mandate against private market citizens now, IMO.
 
Hwood the free market does take care of this. Dan Cathy - the CEO of Chik Fil A now regrets his much publicized stance against gay marriage in spite of the massive bump in revenue it initially gained from people who are there to make a political statement.

In the end it was and remains a bad business idea.

Now for a small biz to do that? Yeah they got a bump in biz and donations no doubt, but let's see how they business is doing in 2 years. My guess is they'll be out of business.
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