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Is it just me.....

ThorOdinson13

Heisman Winner
Gold Member
Apr 4, 2005
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or are neoconservatives just flat delusional turds?

The WSJ leads with an article blaming Pat Buchanan for the woes of the Republican party. I'm sorry but as Friedman pointed out "managed trade" benefits no one but the well connected interest groups pulling the strings. But yes, it is Pat's fault that the Republican party has not won an industrial state other than Ohio since 1988. Even though he argued against the "managed trade" agreements. It is Pat's fault that since 1988 a Republican Presidential Candidate has only won one, count it on one finger folks, one popular vote. Pure delusion and passing the buck with no plans on admitting their philosophy of governing is fundamentally flawed.

In the meantime, ole Jebediah doubles down on the Iraq invasion and declares good ole George is who he goes to for foreign policy advice. Marco adds to the imperialistic neoconservative mantra by discussing the "moral clarity" of aiding the Saudis in their war crimes on Yemen because we need to stick it to Iran. It's good for 'Murica. Again, fundamentally flawed.

When are these turds going to stop with thier preventative war is a valid foreign policy tool mantra? Try this on for "moral clarity" you tools. Every time you decide to exercise your "moral clarity" you are causing the murder of innocent, men, women, and children, regardless of nationality or religion. Oh, and please, continue to tell me how big of a Christian you are while you order these innocents to death for political gain. That goes for all of you "Christians In Name Only" who cheer these mongrels on as well. These people are freaking anti-social personalities void of any type of conscience or empathy for the lives they ruin through war.

One more thing before any of you Obama psychophants jump in on my rant. Your boy is no better. For instance, he ordered the assassination of a 16 year old boy who was also a U.S. Citizen just simply because he was the son of a terrorist. That guy loves playing command and conquer with his private force of UAV's and a kill list that should make all of us blush with embarrassment everytime someone calls us a beacon of freedom for the world. He's right there with all the neocons and their anti-social, psycho, non-empathetic actions.

The GOP from its inception and through the majority of its history has been the party of tyranny and war. The death of that party cannot come soon enough. Right now it's projected at around 2042. I just hope they continue with thier delusions and flawed philosphy of governing so that it meets its demise much much sooner.
 
Thor, just come home. You agree with a sensible foreign policy. Why keep polishing on that conservative turd? You see the same crapola other thinking people do.

There is NO WAY you can say Obama's foreign policy equates with the neocons on any level. He has systematically tried to get us less involved, not more involved, in the middle east. Iran? Ended the Iraq war? (Or tried.) And you just rip his ass with the neocons? I mean.... my gawd if you look at the big picture how can you call him interventionist? Your fellow conservatives constantly rip him for not being aggressive and interventionist ENOUGH.
 
Obama does have a more sensible foreign policy than the neocons. He's still an interventionist and his use of UAV's is disgusting. The Democratic party is a party of nationalized government, economic illiteracy, division of the public, and sets the gold standard for working the media and distributing propaganda. As a little "r" republican I could never support any of the above.
 
Well, technically neocons are also big government and economically illiterate. It really comes down to a guy like me not having a choice. I have considered looking at both parties to determine which one will collapse the system faster and voting for that party exclusively. That could be a fun conversation.

Of course, if I take that route I would also start to encourage everyone to grab every monetary benefit for which they qualify in order to expedite the system wide collapse, which I think will be triggered economically. Would such an encouragement make me a Democrat by default?
 
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Thor, you sound like Avery Sewell. Brighten up - we've always been at the brink of disaster. Presidential candidates have been lamenting the imminent demise of our republic every since I remember.
 
All I know is that we (as a country) need to either commit to an all-in position or an all-out position. This leave just enough in place to piss everyone off strategy that we are currently employing doesn't have any positive future.

Justin
 
Thor, you sound like Avery Sewell. Brighten up - we've always been at the brink of disaster. Presidential candidates have been lamenting the imminent demise of our republic every since I remember.

You will live to regret your statist idealism. But it will be too late. The system will collapse and you will know your part, and despair.
 
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Which coming collapse? The one during the last democratic administration in the 90's, or the one now?

Pilt, do you remember the anti-clinton hysteria of the 90's? From a 40,000 foot view I'm not sure it's much different now. I don't think that racism is pushing the current paranoia and anger as much as the same old fashioned, conservative entitlement and outrage is. You factor in Fox news picking off another feeble-minded 10% of the populace, and here we are.
 
Are you both really so arrogant as to believe this system will never collapse? Every single government in history has collapsed at some point. Will the collapse happen in our lives? Our children's? Their children's? No one knows but it will happen and I believe an economic collapse will trigger it.

This isn't Obama is the president so the world is over hysteria. This is something that will is inevitable in the long run. Unless your one of the putzes who believes we're so got-damned exceptional we're going to do what's never been done. Quite being so damned obtuse and try having a logical conversation instead of cheerleading.
 
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Are you both really so arrogant as to believe this system will never collapse? Every single government in history has collapsed at some point. Will the collapse happen in our lives? Our children's? Their children's? No one knows but it will happen and I believe an economic collapse will trigger it.

This isn't Obama is the president so the world is over hysteria. This is something that will is inevitable in the long run. Unless your one of the putzes who believes we're so got-damned exceptional we're going to do what's never been done. Quite being so damned obtuse and try having a logical conversation instead of cheerleading.
Yeah, I get it. I don't dispute the collapse, but I am interested in your theory on how it will happen.

FYI Mega did imply that it would happen in my lifetime.
 
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Which coming collapse? The one during the last democratic administration in the 90's, or the one now?

Pilt, do you remember the anti-clinton hysteria of the 90's? From a 40,000 foot view I'm not sure it's much different now. I don't think that racism is pushing the current paranoia and anger as much as the same old fashioned, conservative entitlement and outrage is. You factor in Fox news picking off another feeble-minded 10% of the populace, and here we are.


That's it. Simplify it so it fits your perception. Never challenge yourself. Goood.. Goooooood....
 
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Yeah, I get it. I don't dispute the collapse, but I am interested in your theory on how it will happen.

FYI Mega did imply that it would happen in my lifetime.

It's nothing earth shattering or in depth. I just think it is very possible that some of what we are seeing with the rioters over police shootings, the Bundy situation, etc are a response to the the growing police state. I believe that sentimate will continue to grow and once it is coupled with a major economic depression the whole system will implode.

So the trigger will likely be economic collapse in my view but we are already seeing discontent and the police state is going to continue to grow. Is it possible there could be an event that sets it all off before an economice calamity? I suppose it could but I believe it would have to be a pretty major exercise of power or abuse by the government. Do you think this country would support another Japanese internment type situaiton? I tend to think that it wouldn't but when I look at the anti-muslim sentiment across this nation it makes me rethink that perhaps it would.
 
Most of you are too young to remember the race riots and anti-war demonstrations during the 60s and early 70's. They were much worse than what is happening today. Sorry but I don't buy all this police state mania.
 
Thor, you need some historical perspective. Watts? Tulsa? MLK? The Red Scare? (Both of them) Rodney King? The civil war draft riots? Hell, people were wanting to revolt over delivery of sunday mail back in the 1800's. I think you're getting swept up in 24 hour media and right wing alarmist news coverage. If this is bad now, then the things we've been through are just....... my gawd. Taxes are low, the economy is growing.... where's the existential crisis? Are you just determined to be afraid?

Obama just said restricted miltary surplus stuff for law enforcement. I mean...even when he directly addresses your concerns it just fuels the anxiety. If he speaks out against police abuse, he's against white people. If he's pro-cop, he's for a police state.
 
You also had a white majority that was much more tolerant of blatant institutional racism than it is now and I also pointed out that anti-muslim sentiment makes me rethink my thought on that quite often.

And sys, it's not the right wing screaming police state for the most part. It's the left screaming racism and abuse by local police while the right says things like, "he should have just done exactly what they ordered him to do." Swing and a miss. Also, you completely glazed over where I said that I believe the trigger will be an economic collapse when it happens and tht I don't know when it will happen. Strike two. Then you completely ignore that I said anything other than an economic collapse would have to be a pretty major and abusive act by the government toward the people while simultaneously going off on a right-wing alarmist rant and calling me a chicken little. Strike three you're out, go get a bon bon. Instead of being so predictable with every reply you could at least try to get an infield pop fly for a change.

Also, Obama telling the DOD that they will restrict some military surplus from going to law enforcment was a damned good call imo. Something the right isn't all that happy about. How do they get mad about that but also feel that the police are exerting too much force? Lastly, trust me, I'm not scared about an economic and governmental collapse. If it happens it happens.
 
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It's nothing earth shattering or in depth. I just think it is very possible that some of what we are seeing with the rioters over police shootings, the Bundy situation, etc are a response to the the growing police state. I believe that sentimate will continue to grow and once it is coupled with a major economic depression the whole system will implode.

So the trigger will likely be economic collapse in my view but we are already seeing discontent and the police state is going to continue to grow. Is it possible there could be an event that sets it all off before an economice calamity? I suppose it could but I believe it would have to be a pretty major exercise of power or abuse by the government. Do you think this country would support another Japanese internment type situaiton? I tend to think that it wouldn't but when I look at the anti-muslim sentiment across this nation it makes me rethink that perhaps it would.

I know that the country would support another Japanese internment type situation as long as it came from the right people at the right time.

Random thoughts:

I would classify what you are talking about as a revolution not a collapse. The Russian revolution of 1917 was a revolution not a collapse, society continued the state changed. The Roman Empire was a collapse.

It is possible for the police state to win. Our police state seems to be non ideological and thus non self defeating, meaning that it can be repressive without repressing the creativity needed for its maintenance. It is the insidious nature of our particular police state that it has infiltrated almost every form of our communication and thus it is hard to communicate and organize the over throw of the police state.

The state also knows enough about economics at this point to prevent any economic depression that would cause its collapse. The common story you hear about economic collapse (especially from rightwing/libertarian circles) doesn't actually make sense (no offense).

My theory: Our state apparatus/society in general requires a certain percentage of our productive output capacity to maintain. The state apparatus/society and its maintenance requirements roughly grows at the same pace as our society's productive output capacity. Working age population decline coupled with resource scarcity will work in tandem to decrease the total productive output capacity of our society. Our societal structure can't downshift fast enough and it will require a greater percentage of our work to maintain, and at some point a war or natural disaster will put enough strain on our society that it will no longer be tenable to support it, and we will let it collapse.
 
In the meantime, ole Jebediah doubles down on the Iraq invasion and declares good ole George is who he goes to for foreign policy advice. Marco adds to the imperialistic neoconservative mantra by discussing the "moral clarity" of aiding the Saudis in their war crimes on Yemen because we need to stick it to Iran. It's good for 'Murica. Again, fundamentally flawed.

When are these turds going to stop with thier preventative war is a valid foreign policy tool mantra? Try this on for "moral clarity" you tools. Every time you decide to exercise your "moral clarity" you are causing the murder of innocent, men, women, and children, regardless of nationality or religion. Oh, and please, continue to tell me how big of a Christian you are while you order these innocents to death for political gain. That goes for all of you "Christians In Name Only" who cheer these mongrels on as well. These people are freaking anti-social personalities void of any type of conscience or empathy for the lives they ruin through war

It's mindblowingly crazy that that many of the same people advising Bush on foreign policy (Paul Wolfowitz, Douglas Feith, Elliot Abrams, John Bolton etc) are all back, advising 2016 GOP candidates......and actually being taken taken seriously.

Just because Obama's foreign policy appears to be disjointed, inconsistent etc (however you want to call it)......the GOP going back into the Neocons is unbelievably insane.

But it's really happening.

Jeb Bush's foreign policy team.

Marco Rubio's foreign policy team.

Scott Walker's foreign policy team.
 
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Pilt got my first "like." Thor got my second. I frequently read threads from the bottom up. Both of you, that's some damn good stuff.
 
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Most of you are too young to remember the race riots and anti-war demonstrations during the 60s and early 70's. They were much worse than what is happening today. Sorry but I don't buy all this police state mania.

You're possibly correct in theory, but the direction of the current "reality" will make the 60's/70's Pollyanna on steroids, and I'm not talking "police".
 
Here's a brand new WashPo article giving insight as to why the Neocons would be welcomed back into the fold.

From a political standpoint, attacking the Dems over Iraq does make some sense for the GOP.

At the same time, there's a lot of risk.......particularly as the GOP is offering more slogan and rhetoric than specifics. Now that we are the world's largest oil producer, getting further bogged down in the great sand box is not an appealing prospect unless you work for a defense contractor (or hoping the Rapture takes place).

It will be interesting to see how it all plays out.

On the other hand......did you all see this ISIS Parade after taking Ramadi?

Why in the utter hell were we not sending AC 130s, Apaches, A-10s etc up and down the parade?! We would have decimated it.

In World War 2 after invading France, if the Germans sent their tanks into the open in daylight our airpower absolutely slaughtered them. But in 2015 with our Drones, Awacs etc, we stand by and let this parade happen.

Maybe Alex Jones etc are right and all this is a big conspiracy......seriously, letting ISIS parade in the broad daylight 60 miles from Baghdad.
 
I know that the country would support another Japanese internment type situation as long as it came from the right people at the right time.

My theory: Our state apparatus/society in general requires a certain percentage of our productive output capacity to maintain. The state apparatus/society and its maintenance requirements roughly grows at the same pace as our society's productive output capacity. Working age population decline coupled with resource scarcity will work in tandem to decrease the total productive output capacity of our society. Our societal structure can't downshift fast enough and it will require a greater percentage of our work to maintain, and at some point a war or natural disaster will put enough strain on our society that it will no longer be tenable to support it, and we will let it collapse.

This absolutely makes sense to me.
 
Here's a brand new WashPo article giving insight as to why the Neocons would be welcomed back into the fold.

From a political standpoint, attacking the Dems over Iraq does make some sense for the GOP.

At the same time, there's a lot of risk.......particularly as the GOP is offering more slogan and rhetoric than specifics. Now that we are the world's largest oil producer, getting further bogged down in the great sand box is not an appealing prospect unless you work for a defense contractor (or hoping the Rapture takes place).

It will be interesting to see how it all plays out.

On the other hand......did you all see this ISIS Parade after taking Ramadi?

Why in the utter hell were we not sending AC 130s, Apaches, A-10s etc up and down the parade?! We would have decimated it.

In World War 2 after invading France, if the Germans sent their tanks into the open in daylight our airpower absolutely slaughtered them. But in 2015 with our Drones, Awacs etc, we stand by and let this parade happen.

Maybe Alex Jones etc are right and all this is a big conspiracy......seriously, letting ISIS parade in the broad daylight 60 miles from Baghdad
.

This is what bothers me. We could have also decimated ISIS a year or more ago while they were caravaning towards Mosel and other places. They have been out in the open many times and we continue to allow them free movement. I just don't see any resolve in Obama. His actions in the Middle East are more inline with seeing radical Islam prevail and spread than defeating it.
 
Imprimis, I think it's two things..the idiot president thinks he can someday negotiate with anyone alive and two he wants to be UN Secretary General someday as its the only place you can get world adulation for being a spineless blind clown. So if he suddenly started slaughtering people who should be slaughtered that would go against the narrative.
 
Imprimis, I think it's two things..the idiot president thinks he can someday negotiate with anyone alive and two he wants to be UN Secretary General someday as its the only place you can get world adulation for being a spineless blind clown. So if he suddenly started slaughtering people who should be slaughtered that would go against the narrative.

This times a thousand. Downplay the threat, do little to nothing effective, then accuse Republicans of being war mongers when criticized.
 
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