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Elk

panhndlpoke

Heisman Candidate
Sep 6, 2006
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So I am going elk hunting in October and would like some of you experienced folks advice on what to buy or borrow for the hunt. The largest rifle I have is 7mm Rem Magnum. While I know it certainly is adequate, I think I would like to carry something in the 30 caliber range and up. 300, 338, or possibly 375 for the additional knock down power. I don't reload so I think I would prefer to stay with the more mainstream cartridges. I would be hard pressed to pull the trigger at over 300 yards unless absolutely ideal circumstances. The hunt is in the mountains of New Mexico but isn't supposed to be a high level of fitness required. Then again, I'm out of shape and it's at altitude so rifle weight will be a factor. I have plenty of good glass for the trip but will need to buy or borrow a good rifle. Brand? Caliber? Scope power? Anything else you want to suggest?
 
I would love a 338 mag myself just for that purpose. 300 mags are popular and effective. If you would find it helpful, or just want a backup rifle, you're welcome to borrow my Browning Abolt '06 with 30mm 3x10 Leupold glass. With 180 to 220 gr loads, it packs a fair punch, but it's not really any upgrade IMHO to the 7mag. Either should do the trick up to 300. If you need it, let me know this week if possible as I might be fairly close to your area soon.

Your gonna get some good advice here.
 
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If you get a .33 or bigger, you'll want the extra weight. I've got .338, .375, .338-375 and .340's. The .338 is a Weatherby Vanguard S2 and kicks pretty good, the others are heavier guns and easier to shoot, except the .338-375. I hunt horseback a ton so packing one around isn't too bad, but if I'm on foot, I don't think I'd take any of those. By the way, that .338-375 is an Accumark and weighs as much as a small tractor, and still knocks the pudding out of you.

Personally, I think a 7Mag is more than enough gun. The opinions out there get pretty ridiculous as the 7 Mag isn't a magic wand that kills to 1000 yards, but it also is plenty of gun to kill a big bull with. If you can shoot it really well, then it's a great gun and better than a bigger caliber that you aren't as proficient with. I built one last year specifically for elk hunting in mind. I've got a 7 Super and 7 Mashburn and I've also got a 7WSM that is primarily for mule deer, but I'd shoot a bull out to 600 yards with any of these and not blink an eye. 7MM's are really pretty versatile.

And at 300 yards, that just not that far ballistically. A 30.06 at 300 yards will not be that far off the ballistic charts of those other calibers.

I'm all for the big .30's as I have quite a few, and if you want to go that way I'd stick to .300 WM as the ammo is cheap, plentiful, and really, really good. It also isn't a big kicker and is super effective. I've got one that I use as a loaner and it dropped a bull around 500 yards last year no sweat. Like you mentioned, when you don't reload, those exotic chambers are pretty stout financially.

All this to say, I shoot a bunch of rifles, but it's because it is fun, not because I need them. If you like that 7 Mag of yours and can shoot it well, I really think you should consider it. If you are looking for an excuse to buy a new gun, then by all means go do it and hurry. And get two for good measure.

As you well know, lots of people have opinions, but it's really like listening to someone argue about their personal brand of truck. They all get the job done, you just have to decide your preference and flavor.
 
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I hate my 7 mm mag. It's an older Ruger 77. The one without sling swivels and instead using "U" hooks in the stock for the sling. You cannot mount a bipod on the front. And the recoil pad is atrocious. The rifle weighs about 9 lbs and recoil is significantly worse than many larger rifles I have shot. It's like the stock/recoil pad amplifies it. My brother has an identical rifle and said he shot a friends 300 RUM and felt the RUM was less brutal.

I won't carry that rifle unless I am absolutely unable to get something else. And even if I am stuck with a 7mm, I can buy another rifle with a better recoil pad to lessen the damage. Right now I am leaning towards a 300 WSM. A light weight 30 caliber, recoil-wise.
 
I hate my 7 mm mag. It's an older Ruger 77. The one without sling swivels and instead using "U" hooks in the stock for the sling. You cannot mount a bipod on the front. And the recoil pad is atrocious. The rifle weighs about 9 lbs and recoil is significantly worse than many larger rifles I have shot. It's like the stock/recoil pad amplifies it. My brother has an identical rifle and said he shot a friends 300 RUM and felt the RUM was less brutal.

I won't carry that rifle unless I am absolutely unable to get something else. And even if I am stuck with a 7mm, I can buy another rifle with a better recoil pad to lessen the damage. Right now I am leaning towards a 300 WSM. A light weight 30 caliber, recoil-wise.


I think I'd really like the 300WSM too, and that would be a great way to go. It's all you need for about anything in North America. One thought to remember is that it may be harder to get bullet weights over 180 because of the short case length, but 180 is likely plenty. I'd like DTS to weigh in on hi thoughts about bullet weights for elk.
 
We shoot everything from 160 in the 7's, 185-200 in the .30's to 225 in the .33's and 250 in that .375 H&H. I'm way more interested in the terminal ballistics and bullet construction than I am of bullet weight since we haven't had a lot of problem with getting elk down. Shooting at 300 yards just isn't that far for elk and if you put a premium or a partition in one at that range in the right spot, they just don't go far.

I shoot predominately Accubonds and Partitions in the big .30's and .33's and TTSX, GMX and Trophy Bonded out of the 7's, depending on which gun and FPS I'm shooting. I also have some TTSX loaded for the .338-378 Bee but haven't dialed them up yet; expensive, loud and a mule to shoot, but reaching out to 1000 yards on steel is something to behold.

The .375 shoots Woodleigh solids well, but I don't need 300 grains for North American animals. 250 grain GMX does fine.

.375 H&H in a great gun is really spectacular.
 
I hate my 7 mm mag. It's an older Ruger 77. The one without sling swivels and instead using "U" hooks in the stock for the sling. You cannot mount a bipod on the front. And the recoil pad is atrocious. The rifle weighs about 9 lbs and recoil is significantly worse than many larger rifles I have shot. It's like the stock/recoil pad amplifies it. My brother has an identical rifle and said he shot a friends 300 RUM and felt the RUM was less brutal.

I won't carry that rifle unless I am absolutely unable to get something else. And even if I am stuck with a 7mm, I can buy another rifle with a better recoil pad to lessen the damage. Right now I am leaning towards a 300 WSM. A light weight 30 caliber, recoil-wise.


I'm enamored with the .300 WSM. I've got a tang safety Ruger in 7 Mag that I feel the same way about. I keep it around thinking I'm going to put it in a different stock and do something with it. Haven't done it yet.
 
I bought a 300 WSM from Christensen Arms. It goes against everything I hold dear on rifles, but sometimes you just have to say WTF. It has a carbon fiber wrapped barrel, carbon fiber thumbhole stock, titanium muzzle brake, and a fully blue printed stainless steel action. I paid way more than I should have but haven't bought a new rifle in a few years. I stuck a Leupold VX-6 2-12 x 40 CDS scope. It isn't going to weigh much but shouldn't be terrible to carry even if it kicks on the 1-4 shots I take to kill an elk. I purchased a Versa-pod bipod. It's a quick attach/detach model. I also purchased some break in ammo and a variety of ammo to see what the rifle likes.

Nosler 300 WSM 180 Grain AccuBond, Remington 300 Winchester Short Magnum 180 Grain Premier Swift Scirocco, Federal Vital-Shok Nosler Partition 20RD 180gr 300 Win Short Magnum, HSM Trophy Gold 300 Winchester Short Magnum Boat Tail Hollow, Federal Vital-Shok Trophy Bonded Tip 20RD 180gr 300 Win Short Magnum.

Break in ammo: Winchester 300 Winchester Short Magnum 180 Grain Power-Point, Winchester 300 Winchester Short Magnum 150 Grain Power-Point.
 
CF Summit?

I love the Nosler and Trophy Bonded in that ballistic package.
 
Yes. the Summit. The rifle should arrive by Friday, but unfortunately, the ammo doesn't appear to be coming until later. One of the problems with using Bud's Gun Shop for ammo is that you have to do electronic withdrawal to get his best prices, but that means a slightly slower delivery. I'll probably go buy a box of ammo from Walmart (yes, they have it here in Guymon) to shoot this weekend.

And basically, all the above cartridges are what I would consider quality bullets adequate for elk, besides the Winchester power points. I'll use the 180's to sight the rifle in and the 150's for yotes and other fun smaller creatures or metal plinging from more extreme distances. With the Custom Dial System (CDS) from Leupold, I should be able to be accurate easily to 400 yards if the wind isn't bad. I'll have two CDS's made. One for the 180 grain slugs and one for the 150 grain slugs. I'll likely sight the rifle in for 250 yards with the 180's and then determine the zero of the 150's through trial and error. Should be fun.

http://www.christensenarms.com/products/bolt-rifles/carbon-summit-rifle/

I'll post pictures and stuff as things arrive, I shoot, hunt, etc.
 
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You guys are way beyond me with the rifles. Very interesting stuff though. Never went for big game, would love to. My neighbor has a .338 Lapua I'm dying to try out. Problem is, we haven't got a place where we can go to get a nice 2000 yard shot lol.
 
You might want to start a little closer in for your first shots. Maybe 500 yards.
 
I wouldn't be the one taking a 2000 yarder...I know I'm not there yet. It would be my neighbor. I just want to shoot the thing lol. Longest shot I have ever made is 300 yards with my old 30.06. Never had a reason to go farther.
 
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Little porn before I go shoot
 
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Some pics. I don't want to type out everything on my cell phone but I can put the pics up and type everything out in a bit on a computer
 
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Ok, first two pictures. My set up for barrel break in. Sun wasn't up yet on Sunday when I went out. You can see from the photo, the bipod was near the front of the table and the smaller sand bag had to be put on my owner's manual from my car to get it high enough. It was really too high for comfort and steady holding, but that was as low as the bipod went. Eventually, a larger sand bag and removal of the bipod resulted in my best set up for steadier shooting with this rifle. It wasn't ideal but the point was more to begin the break in process than to test the barrel for ultimate accuracy. The stock shape is a little different than a traditional rifle and the smaller sand bag/bipod combo just didn't work well. Also, the rifle kicks substantially, even with the muzzle brake. If you just cradle the gun without the rifle firmly planted in your shoulder, you're going to get "scoped". It isn't unpleasant, but the rifle requires to be firmly held. Weight minus the bolt was 7 lbs 6 ounces. This rifle is going to weigh less than 8 lbs with scope. Great for walking but makes for a bit of a hand full when practicing.

Next picture plus the two on the next post. Just some shots of the rifle and engraving on the barrel. The trigger is a very wide, flat trigger. It has a different feel from any I have used on other firearms. Also, the break is going to be over 3 lbs, I think. It is advertised as 2.5 lbs, but I have 5 rifles with 2.5 lbs triggers and this one feels a little heavier than them. Really, it isn't enough for me to worry about, but I do not think it is 2.5 lbs. None the less, it is very crisp. Pretty generic Timney feel if you've ever used one.

The magazine I give a poor grade to. Honestly, there are places to save weight and places you probably shouldn't bother much. This is one of those. While carbon fiber is very rigid and light weight, a steel magazine would be a better choice. The magazine flexs some which isn't great. Loading the magazine can be a PITA. The follower can slide out the back of the magazine as you compress the front of it when inserting a cartridge. On a hunting rifle, I'm not really planning on doing a massive quantity of loading magazines like on a 1911, but it is annoying. Also, the magazine release can be very tight and difficult to depress making magazine removal hard. I feel that at least a portion of these problems could be alleviated by a metal magazine. I did read a review of the rifle elsewhere and he had the same problem. He also said the rifle broke in eventually and stopped being fussy.

Which brings me to some points. I've purchased 2 custom 1911's, 1 custom rifle, and 2 semi custom rifles. I've also owned many other auto loader shotguns, bolt action rifles, pistols, etc. Almost all of them worked better after some shooting than when fresh out of the box. This rifle needs to be shot some. The action is tight and annoying. It is difficult to work the action in one smooth stroke from front to back and back to front, loading a shell into the chamber. You'll almost always hit a snag somewhere along the way or struggle to get the push feed action to cleanly push the shell into the chamber and close without having to really add some pressure. You can clearly hear the snap of the action as it gives up and grabs the base of the shell when closing the action, often after two or three tries. Additionally, You could see bits of metal inside the action of the rifle from wear after I shot. Clearly some of the cerakote and metal surfaces need some wear and tear on them before it is going to be smooth as silk. As I have never had a "Fully Blue Printed 416 SS machined action" I don't know if this is normal or not. I know in my custom 1911's, the surfaces took some time to mate to one another before operating flawless. In my Cooper's, the action was perfect from the beginning. In my other custom rifle, a Kidd 22, it worked perfectly from the beginning. I'm inclined to be annoyed. The price for this rifle was too high for the action to be as fussy as it is. I'm going to call today just to see what they say. Nothing I have read suggests that the action was hard to manipulate early in the process of shooting the rifle but that doesn't mean it was just omitted.

The last three shots are the two groups I did on Sunday and a picture illustrating the movement of the scope. First let me explain my routine. Barrel break in is a controversial subject. Some swear by it and others ignore it completely. Fact of the matter is that most barrels will benefit some from a break in procedure of some kind. And by benefit I mean they will become slightly more accurate if you break the barrel in slowly and meticulously rather than just going shooting. Also, most hunting rifles are plenty accurate right out of the box that breaking in the barrel isn't really needed. Here's the but: If you plan on doing any long range precision shooting, breaking in the barrel to get from 1 MOA to 0.80 MOA is worth it. My gun requires a break in for two reasons. 1. The action is tight. 2. The gun manufacturer requires it if you want to keep the accuracy guarantee. The routine rec'd from the manufacturer is this: clean the barrel after every shot for the first 10 shots. Clean the barrel after every 5 shots for the next 50 shots. I altered it a bit because I feel that if a rifle is shooting .50 MOA right out of the box, what is the potential benefit of breaking in the barrel further? Maybe you could get to .4 MOA. I probably couldn't with hand loads. I damn sure couldn't with the soft points I'm shooting. So I shot 5 rounds cleaning the rifle after each shot. I then shot the first 3 round group. I then changed the scope a little, cleaned the rifle and shot the 2nd group. The flier was my 2nd shot. I also noticed that my scope was moving. You can see the line on the scope. I always draw a pencil line on scopes after I mount them so I can see if they are moving. Since I'm still very much in a break in and the scope is moving, I'm ok with the group.

I have to admit, I was disappointed with my shooting. I am a little intimidated by the rifle and felt that I could have tightened up the groups by shooting better. While the scope did move a little, I don't think it would affect the point of impact much. I'll need to get the scope firmly seated to be sure, though. I'll also need to get some different ammunition. The bullets are not exactly uniform with the soft point and will affect the POI a little. At the end of the day, I didn't learn a hell of a lot besides that I need to reset my scope mount and that I need to shoot more before my trip. Luckily, I don't think this will be a problem.

Thoughts on the rifle: I do like the stock shape and the aesthetic look of the rifle. The carbon fiber barrel marks up easily but would clean just as easy. I worry a bit about it getting marred by rocks and stuff when hunting, but I openly decided to take a risk on this rifle. Time will tell. I'm not a fan of the ultra wide trigger. Theoretically, it should be better, but it just felt weird. I'm sure that I will grow accustomed to it over the next two months and don't anticipate it being a long term complaint. Whatever brand of recoil pad is on the gun is a good one. I like it. I don't like the paint on the stock, but it seems to be very popular these days and I don't have a lot of other options. It's also completely unrelated to the quality of the rifle. I'm less than pleased with the action but am optimistic it will get better. I've said very little about the scope. It is nice glass but I wish I had time to get a custom one with a different reticle in it. I just consider the Leupold Duplex too heavy and prefer a finer reticle. I may replace the scope with a custom one after the hunt. Time really wasn't my friend in this situation so I went with what was safe rather than what was my personal ideal.

rifle stock 9/10
trigger 8/10 (because of slightly higher break than preferred)
scope 7/10
action 4/10
magazine 3/10
accuracy 2/10 because of price and guarantee. This could get significanly better with a little practice and better ammunition. And it could be entirely me and the scope moving too. Jury is still out.

That really looks terrible for a rifle of this price range, but I think both the action and accuracy will improve dramatically over the next 100 or so rounds. The magazine is going to suck no matter what and I may see if they offer metal magazines for sale.

Ask away if you have any questions.
 
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I forgot. The muzzle brake unscrewed slightly too while I was shooting. It isn't a big deal if I am shooting one shot, cleaning and shooting a 2nd shot. It does matter if I'm shooting groups. A loose brake will affect POI too. Another reason to be optimistic on the potential accuracy of the rifle (and myself, hehe).
 
Ok, first pic. First shot was the bottom left shot. Way off. The next two were close but not spectacularly so. After I shot the group, I noticed that the scope mounts had gotten loose. So I'd managed to firmly attach the scope to the mounts, and the muzzle brake was firmly attached to the rifle, but scope mounts had loosened. The next group everything stayed put. We're getting closer. I feel that the rifle will be shooting very tight groups with the proper ammo. And if everything stays tied down. Then I'll have to practice seated shots with a bipod.

I'll continue to post groups and information as I create it. I'll also try to remember to list ammo and yardage information.
 
Are you using any thread locker blue? I know that some people don't like to use it in these situations, and perhaps you don't want to use it on a gun that you paid quite a bit for, but I had an annoying scope mount issue on my Savage 24. Had a similar issue with a 10/22 that would not stay now matter how you torqued it, so I just flipped it upside down while the rail mount was drying (yes the manual tells you "no", but that CYA because some people would let it drip into the bolt).

Might be captain obvious, but I just thought I would ask. Not so much for the brake, perhaps some Teflon tape at that point.
 
I used blue on the threads for the scope but not for the threads on the mount to the picatinny rail. I will likely use a wrench to tighten and see if it loosens again. If not, ok. If it does, I'll blue those too
 
Thanks Panhandle, It's great fun breaking in a new rifle. Leupold can put in a new reticle of your choice in many of their scopes. After the hunt, you might check. I agree with liking a finer recticle on a long distaance rifle. I had bought a Leupold European 30MM that came with a fairly thick type post recticle that I sent back and had changed out. I think the thick post was intended for dangerous or close in game, but I sure like the new recticle. Please keep the info coming....
 
Ok, I moved some pictures around on my photobucket so I'll re upload in order as best I can. sorry about that.

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The first 15 rounds are the Federal ammunition in roughly the order I shot them. The next 9 rounds are Winchester. The last picture has the shots from the other target overlayed on it to get an idea of a 6 round group. On the Federal ammuntion, the previous 5 rounds were single shot and cleaning after each round and therefore weren't really groups.
 
All the Winchester rounds were shot by me. The two 5 shot groups were by my cousin, Hunter. This concluded the rifle break in. I cleaned after each shot for the first 5 shots after each 3 round group for the next 55 shots except for the 2 five round groups my cousin shot. As you can see, the shots are all over the paper. I believe in shooting the rifle after cleaning it to "foul" the barrel. You never really know where that first shot is going to go after a cleaning but before the fouling. That explains some of the randomness of the groups. I did not clean the rifle after the last 3 round group and elected to shoot another group instead. I used HSM 185 grain Berger HPBT Hunting VLD ammunition. Of course, from the earlier shots, I should of known this ammunition was going to shoot a little higher, but I adjusted my scope a little after overlaying the previous 3 shots on the last photo to get a 6 round group. I should have known this was going to throw the rounds into the top of the target, but I goofed and forgot.

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That last group is slick. Drop that thing down 2 inches and you are set for MPBR out to 600 on elk.
 
That's the first of my groups. I'll shoot more tomorrow. Shot 1 was off the paper. Shots 2-4 were the 3 right above the quarter. Shot 5 is on the top of the plate. I feel like I rushed shots 1 and 5 but got good consistent shots on the three middle shots. I still have 10 rounds of HSM ammo left and feel this is pretty good. I'll shoot two more groups tomorrow with the HSM ammunition and then clean the rifle thoroughly and "foul" the barrel for a couple shots and then shoot another brand of ammunition 20 rounds without cleaning to group that ammo. Clean, repeat till I'm out of ammo this week. I should finish all I have by Friday or sooner.

I'm still having problems with the rifle feeding properly and with magazine removal. I did call Christensen, and they were tops. They offered 1 of two options: 1. Send them the rifle and they'll have it back by Sept 4 working flawlessly, guaranteed. 2. They can mail me a magazine and see if that fixes the feeding issue. If so, we can wait till after my hunt at which time, I'll mail the rifle back to them and they'll fix the "sticking' magazine. If the new magazine doesn't fix the feeding issue, I'll mail them the rifle and they'll have it back ASAP. I chose to keep the rifle for now. If the new magazine solves the feeding issues, then I can live with a magazine release being difficult to push until after my hunting trip.

Scope: The scope is finally set, I think. I had to go back to square one and start over. I needed to lap the rings to get them flat so they will have more surface area between the scope and ring to keep the scope from moving. I also used a torque wrench and loc-tite to ensure the screws on the rings were torqued to spec. The bases shouldn't loosen up as I used a wrench to very securely tighten them to my rifle. Hopefully this fixes my woes here.

Muzzle brake: I think this will stop loosening now that I'm not going to be taking it off after each 3 shot group. When I tighten it a little bit more than hand tight, it seems to stay put.
 
That last group is slick. Drop that thing down 2 inches and you are set for MPBR out to 600 on elk.

Thanks, but the first shot of the 5 shot group is about 3/4" above the topmost shot. I do feel that the 3 shot string there is pretty representative of how the ammo will really shoot, but until I can keep my $@%# together for 5 shots in a row, it's merely theoretical. None the less, I'm pleased with the rifle and the accuracy. If that ammo was all I had, I would feel comfortable using it. Fortunately, I have lots more to play with.
 
I measured the 3 shot string and it is about .6295", and since it was 3 shots in a row, I do believe it a valid measurement. I also measured my last two 3 shot groups with the Winchester ammo as 1.2545 and 2.192, respectively. It will be interesting to see if that ammo will group if I don't clean the rifle right before shooting a group. I have some left so I'll try to do that before cleaning and changing to a different bonded bullet for my elk hunt. It will be interesting since that ammo was $38/20 rounds vs $50/20 rounds for some of the higher dollar stuff.
 
Got some shots in this morning.

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Ok, first target, first shot was the flyer. Everything else was pretty good. Took me a little to get warmed up but the group wasn't horrible. It measures 1.44" or so.

The second target was the last 5 rounds from the 20 round box. The entire group measures about 1.13 and the tightest 3 round group measures about .44' getting me sub half inch. I'm very pleased with this, of course. I'm very anxious to do some more shooting with other shells to see what I can come up with.

The third target the wind had kicked up a little making perfect shots a little more difficult. And to be honest, I was so excited with my previous group, I just really wasn't too worried with this one. The group measures about 1.5" and probably isn't my tightest group with that ammo.

The flyer on the first shot this morning worries me a bit. I didn't feel like I threw the shot off. I thought I had a good shot, but you can see from the next 9 shots, it was definitely either me or possibly a cold barrel. It isn't a big deal until all of a sudden, you're looking at a 309 yard shot on a big bull elk. Then you're talking about a bullet that is 9 inches away from where you were hoping to hit. Then again, that's why I'm practicing. Anyway, I think I can confidently say that the rifle and HSM ammo shoot well.
 
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That first cold barrel shot is the key shot, as you mentioned. I always judge my accuracy by that one. I can't really advocate for dry firing your rifle, but I will do it once or twice before using live ammo when I'm getting dead serious about that first shot. Anyway, it looks like you've done a great job with breaking in the rifle. She is shooting well. Hope she continues to get tighter groups as you get close to time- it's important to have confidence in your rig.
 
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My morning shoot. First pic is of the "fouling" shots I took after cleaning the rifle. I took the shots seated on the ground from a bipod and am surprised at the group. It may not be the tightest group I've shot with the rifle, but it sure isn't the widest. Time will tell if this was an aberration or the norm. This is the position the guide suggests will be the most likely way I'll be shooting during the hunt.

The next 3 pics are the groups I shot from the rifle with the Remington Swift Scirocco. The groups aren't particularly good or bad. I felt like I shot pretty well, but couldn't get as tight a group as I had hoped. I honestly think that my rifle isn't fond of this stuff. I'd be more discouraged if I didn't have the HSM ammunition grouping so tightly. I've essentially eliminated the ammunition as I feel more comfortable with the HSM.
 
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3 fouling shots up first off a bipod. It looks a little more like what I was expecting, but at the end of my session today, I noticed the bipod mount was a little loose and could have contributed to my inability to keep a tight group.

The next 4 pictures are of my entire box of Federal Premium 180 grain Nosler Partition shots in 5 shot groups. Really very inconsistent. I numbered each shot in order of my shooting but the pictures are not in order as I shot each group. I didn't feel like I was shooting real well this morning and it looks like it. I did feel the ammo was shooting more consistent than it appears but I'm not sure. I think Nosler Partitions are known for not producing the tightest groups but I think this is excessive. I think I'm flinching or the loose bipod mount was affecting things more than I realize or my technique is poor. Or I'm shooting fine and the gun doesn't like the ammo. We'll see. I have some more stuff that is well known for shooting very tight groups. Regardless, I'll chose an ammunition that I feel gives me the best opportunity to shoot well and practice, practice, practice.

Last 3 shots are to help me show how spread the groups have been. The first is the HSM stuff. It's only 14 rounds since my cousin shot 1 5 round group, but it looked reasonable and pretty tight, moving from left to right. My first group was high and I had to move the scope down after shooting with the HSM stuff. None the less, I put one shot off the paper so only 14 rounds are represented on the plate. It is the tightest set of shots. The next is the Remington Scirocco. Honestly, lining the shots up like this makes me feel a lot better about this ammo than I did with the 3 groups I shot. There are only 15 shots on this one as my cousin shot one 5 round group, too. His group was not significanly different than the general look, but my groups are a little tighter and I adjusted the scope a little between our groups so it's impossible to line the groups up for an onverlay. Really, the way the group looks, this might be my best overall set of ammunition. Lastly is the Federal Nosler Partition. It really is all over the place. The orange circle is about the size of a quarter for comparison.

I don't think I have a flinch. I couple times today, I chambered the rifle, aimed and fired, only to realize I hadn't actually got a cartridge in the chamber. I didn't jump either time. If it is technique, I'm pretty sure I know the problem. I think I'm getting my eye too far back from the scope and in slightly different locations which will affect shot placement by the parallax differences. I'm going to work on that the next couple sessions and see what I see.
 
Does that scope have parallax adjustment at the objective? When I shoot off a bipod I tend to pull too tight into my shoulder which causes some fliers for me.
 
Unfortunately no. After today, I'm convinced I was overly concerned with recoil and holding the rifle to tight. I poured out a bit of sand to make the bags more pliable. I got the rifle set up better before even grabbing the rifle as well as more repeatability to the position. Also, I had to be very cognizant where my cheek was on the stock so I kept it the same every time.

Most of my other rifles have the AO parallax but this doesn't. It has inadvertently made my shooting more sloppy. I think I can order the scope with the adjustment from the custom shop but I can't wait for it to arrive.

Anyway, I shot the Federal bonded tips this weekend and they were very consistent. Or I was. I also shot the Nosler AccuBond's and the Federal Trophy Copper's and all were very good but the bonded tips were the best. I think the HMS was a little better, but I think the Bonded tips might be a little better slug for Elk so that's what I'm going with.

I'll post all the pictures Monday.
 
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