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Clemson’s Dabo Swinney in the middle of LGBT issue

I personally don't care what Dabo thinks or does. I also don't personally care what Chuck and Larry do down the street either. The fact we as a society spend any amount of time arguing or debating this issue over other stuff is crazy.

Let gay people get married, let your church think it is dumb and not allow it to happen in your facility and let's move on to stuff that actually matters.

It is impossible for gay people to get "married", unless they marry a member of the opposite sex. The definition of "marriage" is a union between two members of the opposite sex. Hence, it is a logical fallacy to use the term "marriage equality" as the gays do. What the gays are seeking to do is to change the definition of the word "marriage."
 
It is impossible for gay people to get "married", unless they marry a member of the opposite sex. The definition of "marriage" is a union between two members of the opposite sex. Hence, it is a logical fallacy to use the term "marriage equality" as the gays do. What the gays are seeking to do is to change the definition of the word "marriage."

Cool story I guess. Not really true but whatever works for you.
 
Cool story I guess. Not really true but whatever works for you.

No it really is true. Marriage is the union between a man and a woman, has been that way forever. What the gays are trying to do is to change the nature of marriage. I'd have more respect for them if they were upfront and honest about this.
 
For the life of me I can't understand why you care so much. How Fred and Chuck define their relationship in the eyes of the law has zero impact on my life. None.

From a religious perspective you and your church should be free to believe whatever you want and define marriage however you want. I don't understand why the government should play any role in that.
 
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It is impossible for gay people to get "married", unless they marry a member of the opposite sex. The definition of "marriage" is a union between two members of the opposite sex. Hence, it is a logical fallacy to use the term "marriage equality" as the gays do. What the gays are seeking to do is to change the definition of the word "marriage."

So?
 
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I guess I'm at a loss to understand why grown ass adults give a single shit about the definition of a word. Definitions change all the time - and the concept of "traditional marriage" is pure nostalgic fantasy if you go further back than a few generations.

Two other free human citizens calling themselves "married" in no way affects anyone else's marriage.
 
I didn't really give a shit about how two consenting adults choose to live their lives. But it doesn't stop there with the LGBT crowd. Their next push (what we are seeing now) is the complete ostracization of anyone who doesn't applaud the gay "lifestyle", especially those whose moral values are based on religious beliefs. In some states they have began to indoctrinate kids about the "lifestyle." It will never end with these people.
 
These homosexual related topics always get the most posts. Each one needs to start with a pool of how many posts it will exceed. I'd wager this one exceeds 100+ posts. :)
 
Yet what only 15% of the population if homosexual. Yet 70% of political talk is focused on this issue. Let them marry and let the churches say it is a sin and wrong. The Church doesn't take away any rights so I don't understand why middle ground can't be reached on this issue oh wait then the Democrats wouldn't have the market concerned.
 
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Yet what only 15% of the population if homosexual. Yet 70% of political talk is focused on this issue. Let them marry and let the churches say it is a sin and wrong. The Church doesn't take away any rights so I don't understand why middle ground can't be reached on this issue oh wait then the Democrats wouldn't have the market concerned.

1.6% of the population is gay (much lower than the 5-10% you hear from LGBT activists). The CDC released their first-ever study on the topic last year and 1.6% is the number they had. No mention of the study at all in the media since it didn't fit the liberal/progressive narrative.
 
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The folks who are indifferent, and just want to give in to either side are the cowards in this fight. And unfortunately, most Christians are just giving in.
 
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I didn't really give a shit about how two consenting adults choose to live their lives. But it doesn't stop there with the LGBT crowd. Their next push (what we are seeing now) is the complete ostracization of anyone who doesn't applaud the gay "lifestyle", especially those whose moral values are based on religious beliefs. In some states they have began to indoctrinate kids about the "lifestyle." It will never end with these people.

Exactly. It won't just stop when they are allowed to get married. It will become a norm, and they will ruin a lot of lives, because they don't believe in their ideology.
 
1.6% of the population is gay (much lower than the 5-10% you hear from LGBT activists). The CDC released their first-ever study on the topic last year and 1.6% is the number they had. No mention of the study at all in the media since it didn't fit the liberal/progressive narrative.

Good night so at most it is 5-10% that is even worst then I thought. Better be a focal point of the next POTUS election or we are doomed.
 
No, it is 1.6%. The CDC came up with that number.
wow unreal.

So if I did my math right 1.6% of the population would be 5,101,713 ( I rounded up to a whole number). So Obama can give 5 million people amnesty but he won't give the same % of the population the right to marry. Hum seems a little bit of a double standard there.
 
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I didn't really give a shit about how two consenting adults choose to live their lives. But it doesn't stop there with the LGBT crowd. Their next push (what we are seeing now) is the complete ostracization of anyone who doesn't applaud the gay "lifestyle", especially those whose moral values are based on religious beliefs. In some states they have began to indoctrinate kids about the "lifestyle." It will never end with these people.

These people, huh? Moral values based on religious beliefs are exactly worth as much as moral values based on humanistic concepts of basic freedom and individual liberty.

Should you have the right to oppose gay marriage? Of course.

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And they should have the right to get married if they want to.

I'm guessing if you couldn't marry who you wanted to, you might be more understanding of a movement that says, **** it. If they won't let me get married, I'll just force them to through the court system. Being pissed about some group not respecting your moral beliefs - when your moral beliefs are that members of their group shouldn't be allowed, in a free country, to marry who they want to - just seems really hypocritical to me.

I am not one to equate homophobia with more clear cut civil rights issues like racism and sexism, but there are similar over the top doom and gloom concerns every time there is societal change. It's always been this way and always will be, because we become comfortable with our current society and our roles in it - forgetting that a few generations ago, people no doubt thought we were going to hell in a hand basket because we let women vote and didn't regulate interracial marriage. Anytime anything changes, we think it's the end of the world, yet somehow it never is and we live in an unprecedented time of low violence, high education and comparative global peace as we ride a wave of technology which changes our lives daily. We are winning as a species, but in the end, change always scares people.

By the way, there is a massive gulf of difference between "applauding the gay ""lifestyle"" " and genuinely not giving a shit about it. I seriously don't give a shit and I will bet you $100 cash that I never get ostracized for not standing up and applauding. But I am also not going to work myself up worrying about the gay mafia coming to get me if I don't. Eventually, people will look around and say... huh, nobody cares that I'm gay. Guess I'll put on some clothes and leave this parade.' And then the millennials will face something similar when they are old crusty middle aged dicks like us.

There's plenty of stupid to go around in this debate.

Let me make an assumption - you vote R, yes? I generally do too. Until the R's realize what a hopeless albatross gay marriage is... what a complete loser of a topic to waste time on.... what an absolute lock of the year, guarantee of defeat it is... they'll keep watching imbeciles like Obama and Hillary walk into office with "I... I can't believe they bought it" looks on their faces. I guess what I am saying it that this thread specifically empowers R morons to run for office and lose and weeds out people who actually might fix the economy and save the republic.

Last thing. Traditional Marriage is at least in part, a trick modern collective memory - the way we would like to believe it was in the good old days. I realize this is a humor article written with a bit of an agenda, but it's still somewhat enlightening if you read it with something like an open mind.

5 reasons 'Traditional Marriage' would Shock Your Ancestors
 
The LGBT group are really masters at marketing. I give them great credit. They have sold the younger generations that if you disagree with their lifestyle, you HATE them. And now they are succeeding with the general population. While I deplore their choice of sexuality, it's really not any of my business what they do behind closed doors. If the government would get out of the marriage business...aka quit giving tax breaks to married couples, at least some of the push would subside. But as mentioned above, there is a group that won't stop at just the financial equality. They want to cram it down the throats of those that disagree....no pun intended.
 
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The LGBT group are really masters at marketing. I give them great credit. They have sold the younger generations that if you disagree with their lifestyle, you HATE them. And now they are succeeding with the general population. While I deplore their choice of sexuality, it's really not any of my business what they do behind closed doors. If the government would get out of the marriage business...aka quit giving tax breaks to married couples, at least some of the push would subside. But as mentioned above, there is a group that won't stop at just the financial equality. They want to cram it down the throats of those that disagree....no pun intended.

Just curious, but when you chose your sexuality, how did you weigh the relative attractiveness of your options?
 


Really kind of a weird read, honestly. Saying something can't exist (gay marriage) which clearly does exist is kind of pointless, isn't it?

First and foremost, "Sometime between the divorce rate skyrocketing and out-of-wedlock births reaching 40 percent nationwide, it became obvious that our society has very little energy for preserving, defending, respecting, or even participating in marriage."

The divorce rate has been slowing since the 80's and is at it's lowest point since 1970. Lots of factors in that, but chief among them - people are waiting longer to get married and making smarter life choices by doing so.

Next problem...

Tying gay marriage to abortion in order to demonize the idea as a holy cow of liberals is also faulty. Many liberty minded independents support gay marriage and oppose abortion. I am one of these. Just ask @syskatine if I am a good liberal.

Next problem...

His two pieces of evidence that gay marriage is different than the regular kind...

1) One involves people of the same sex, the other does not.

2) In one there is never any possibility of procreation, whereas in the other there is.


The problem is that #1 is obvious and undisputed. It actually makes the point for the pro-gay marriage crowd by reducing it to the obvious. The problem with #2 is obviously the follow up question, so should straight couples who are too old or infertile to produce children get married? If a couple simply chooses not to have children, does that lessen the validity of their marriage to each other?

He awkwardly addresses this paradox by calling infertile couples' inability to produce children a "defect," and says "Fertile, healthy married couples have not only the ability to procreate, but often the responsibility."

Procreation isn't a responsibility. Nor is it the reason people get married. Maybe it once was, but thankfully in the first world that is no longer the case. Is procreation why you married your wife? Be honest when you met your wife, did you fantasize about the babies she could deliver for you? Of course not. It started with basic physical attraction and was followed up by an intellectual and spiritual connection. How is that unique to a straight couple? And if it's not, what was the point again? Very confusing.

He then says, "But in the old days (whenever those were) people had kids because they wanted to and because they felt it was their vocation. I think that’s a beautiful mentality, and a rare one in these ‘me first’ times."

That's one vague and patronizing way to look at it. Another is to recognize that we are in an unprecedented time of technological growth, high population and relative world peace. Isn't advancement of mankind an honorable goal? If so, I think some intellectual honesty is in order. Can we really demand the next iPhone every six months while also demanding that we cling to the "good old days" in social ways that make us personally (individually) feel comfortable?

Do any of us want to live in a time of infant mortality, short life spans and back breaking labor like our ancestors where producing mewling filthy offspring was actually anything like a vocation? Or did all of you selfish me-first college educated elitists pick your own major and choose your own path like I did? No? You all work in the dirt and have 16 kids?

Next problem....

He fails at @syskatine levels of ineptitude to recognize the irony in this statement:

"We cry discrimination and persecution if we find out that our coworker makes slightly more than us, or has a slightly bigger office, or a slightly more comfortable chair. We purchase TVs for a slightly clearer picture. In other words, we find immense, world-shattering connotations in the faintest little cosmetic changes and deviations, yet we struggle to appreciate the difference between heterosexual and homosexual couples"

Yes... and we also struggle to appreciate the basic premise of living in a free country and minding your own damned business because we think the queer army is going to force us all to live in homo land if we let a couple of people who love each other say they are married. We find "immense, world-shattering connotations" in the slightest societal change as we type away on this shiny new message board, embracing other - more convenient changes at a mind boggling pace.

He predicts something called gay marriage will be legal in every state, but spends an entire article parsing the semantics of the word "marriage" and tripping over himself the whole way to the climactic faith-based end statement: "No matter what the State does, the essence of marriage cannot be changed, and marriage will still be a sacrament bestowed by God through a husband onto his wife and a wife onto her husband," which is a perfectly valid point of view. I wish that had just been his point from the beginning instead of trying to justify it through so many mental gymnastics.
 
Baaaaaa, Baaaaaa, The sheep are stirred up tonight. Dabo can do whatever the hell he wants but he a public figure and as result he going to get a little criticism occasionally. Conservatives are biggest whinny crybabies in the f'ing world.

The church is perfectly free to define marriage anyway they want. The Catholic church didn't recognize my parents marriage because they weren't married in a Catholic church. According to the pope I'm a bastard. Neither my parents or give a damn what he thinks. What the Catholic, Baptist, Jewish, Muslim or any other church isn't free to do in America is define the term marriage legally and deny those who don't agree with them their legal rights. That is what the marriage equality fight is about. It's not the gays forcing their views on you it's simply them trying to stop you from forcing your views and that's are they are into the law.

Dabo's a big boy. He will survive. As long as he beats South Carolina he can support the Devil himself and no one going to touch him. Go 6-6 and Ronald Reagan, the Pope and Billy Graham aren't going to save him.
 
Did the CDC number include Denny Hastert? Because I bet when he was surveyed he claimed he was straight as an arrow.
 
Well, @JonnyVito made a really good point earlier in the thread which no critics of gay marriage have touched with a 10 foot pole. With a 2015 census population of 320,000,000, even if that number is correct at 1.6%, it's basically is being used in this thread to minimalize the importance of 5,120,000 of your fellow American citizens personal freedoms.

That's not an insignificant number, no matter how it is spun.

Also, if you believe that only 1.6% of women have had lesbian sex, I have an island to sell you. What happens on these surveys is people answer the way they they self-identify and they tend to disregard a lot of exceptions to that as anomalies that don't count. Human sexuality is far more nuanced a simple mathematic formula or percentage of the whole.

Which I find really ironic because it's the same people who say homosexuality is a choice that typically champion the lowest possible average percentage. IF it was a choice, logically that percentage would be a lot higher wouldn't it?
 
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For the record I also think 5 million people is a lot of people I just think there are issues of more importance to base how you vote. I think the LBGT community will get what they want no matter if a D or an R is in office. It will be about the Supreme Court more then anything. I still think the democrats use it as a tacit for votes and to draw attention away from other issues.
 
For the record I also think 5 million people is a lot of people I just think there are issues of more importance to base how you vote. I think the LBGT community will get what they want no matter if a D or an R is in office. It will be about the Supreme Court more then anything. I still think the democrats use it as a tacit for votes and to draw attention away from other issues.

The thing is, both parties do. It benefits both parties to use gay marriage is a shell game because it's interesting. It gives them something to talk about without having to say anything about anything that actually matters.
 
The thing is, both parties do. It benefits both parties to use gay marriage is a shell game because it's interesting. It gives them something to talk about without having to say anything about anything that actually matters.

Correct. See the 2004 & 2012 elections as evidence of this.
 
The thing is, both parties do. It benefits both parties to use gay marriage is a shell game because it's interesting. It gives them something to talk about without having to say anything about anything that actually matters.

Agreed the other side (republicans) use it to lock in the religious groups.
 
Yep, Karl Rove did a masterful job of using it to great advantage in the 2004 election.

He rallied the conservative and religious base to get the gay marriage vote issue on the ballot in numerous swing states, timed to coincide with the 2004 presidential election. That certainly helped ensure that the social conservatives would turn out to vote in higher numbers than they otherwise might of, considering the otherwise lackluster candidates.

BTW, you can add Karl Rove to the list of people who almost certainly would self-identify as being straight to any pollster.
 
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